what are people doing to show the stair opening so the floor people can calculate the Joists/beams?

[SH_Canada]

I did a joist plan view, but it is quite cluttered with the joists. And to show the distance from outside wall to side of stairs plus all other turns of the stairs, gets a bit ugly. I looked around and found someone that shows the stair opening as a closed polyline on the foundation plan. I can see the advantage of this as the foundation plan has all the posts, and bearing walls. It would be a no brainer for the floor guy to use it. In fact I got a copy of a floor joist program and this is really all it needs, outside walls, bearing wall location, posts, stair/other openings, joist direction.

 

 But the only way I can think to do this is to draw a polyline or box in the joist framing view, then set it to a different layer and show it on the foundation plan(where the joists don't actually show). And then put dimensions to it. Are people doing this, or something else, maybe not showing all the joists and just labelling joist direction...but that still doesn't get the opening as the opening comes from the main floor while the joists come from the foundation floor. I can't figure out how to get them both in the same plan...easily. I did see the whole reference plan thing, but it seems like it would take a lot to get just the stair opening to show. I suppose the other way is to make the floor guy read it off of the floor plan view, but this has other complications, such as are your dimensions to the drywall or the joist? and if your stairs are surrounded by railing, its not crystal clear that your dimension is to the framed opening. It would leave the floor guy guessing. in fact that is how I found this problem, the dimension between my two joists on either side of the stairs in floor framing view was not the width of the stairs (when i opened the stair dbx)

 

But I'm also a little torn that the foundation plan shouldn't really show the floor framing for the next level, it should show that which is required for the cribbers. I suppose I could add yet another plan. "plan for floor guy" to use with the joist framing plan (which shows joists and their directions). I suppose if you chose to not show all joists, then one would have to show different regions and joist directions in those regions...sounds like a lot of manual work

 

looking for the best presentation with least amount of thinking for floor guys/cribbers/framers. 

 

thanks, 

[Renerabbitt]

58 minutes ago, jasonN said:

I did a joist plan view, but it is quite cluttered with the joists.

Personally, my job as a drafter and designer is to illustrate a specific set of instructions in the simplest way possible.
List your staircase width in your plan view, and your walls are dimensioned...the builder should be able to do his calcs from there.

If you really feel the need to get more detailed and want to show a floor framing view you can setup a reference layer set showing your floor joists on another floor or simply rename your views to illustrate your intent:
Foundation and 1st story floor framing:

2nd Story Floor Framing:

 

[joey_martin]

I use a framing anno/layer set so that I can add dims where I want/need them to locate points along the framing plans. 

[tommy1]

I do as Joey does. I have my engineer place and size beams in markups. Then I place them in the plan.

[Michael_Gia]

10 hours ago, jasonN said:

draw a polyline or box in the joist framing view, then set it to a different layer

That’s what I do.  Carpenters appreciate it. The blue dimension line has a label called rim board so the carpenters know where to place that rim board and cut their joists accordingly to create the stairwell. 
 

[SH_Canada]

@Michael_Gia, 

 

your rimboard looks like it is within the stairwell with nothing supporting the corner? are you designing declining spindles into the floor above?

 

I'm trying to visualize it, but failing miserably.

 

[SH_Canada]

I was doing similar to what joey shows, but when the stairwell is in the middle, It's more messy

 

so i tried the box thing. not sold on it