Why are Line Drawing viewports printing with Black Background when exported to PDF first?

[KTransue]

Putting all of the above pieces together, I believe that:

 

1) It definitely has to do with the transparency feature added to Portable Document Format (PDF) file type, whose very origination was for universal utility. 

 

2) Its manifestation definitely has to do with the last product sending the print to the printer.

 

3) The issue can be overcome by the choice of which product will or won’t work with these files, though there is no reasonable way to force that in the distribution of files, so that shouldn’t be a necessary step. 

 

4) The problem can probably be overcome by the product generating the PDFs if they are generated without transparency, though that’s not a desirable solution for those that want to be able to post-process PDF files. 
 

5) The problem can probably also be overcome by Chief in a more universally acceptable way by generating the PDF file using Chief’s PDF generator (that seems to have been proven to produce the best quality file for Chief), and then also flattening the PDF file before it is saved, if that file is to be distributed and/or printed. 
 

6) That preference could be a switchable flag in the print dialog that would allow the generation of either type of PDF; one that is suitable for post processing for a file favoring transparency, or one that is flattened for typical printing or distribution.

 

I still hang on to my idea that this remains a problem that can possibly be overcome on Chief’s side of the responsibility wall, to generate predictably printable output for the majority of us who don’t need to post-process PDF files. 
 

Of course, I also have a firm grasp on the very real possibility that I’m full of hoo-hah.

[Chopsaw]

10 minutes ago, KTransue said:

Of course, I also have a firm grasp on the very real possibility that I’m full of hoo-hah.

 

That all seems reasonable to me.  Possibly we could test your theory by flattening a file that prints as black background and then we would know for sure.

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, KTransue said:

Putting all of the above pieces together, I believe that:

 

1) It definitely has to do with the transparency feature added to Portable Document Format (PDF) file type, whose very origination was for universal utility. 

 

2) Its manifestation definitely has to do with the last product sending the print to the printer.

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, KTransue said:

3) The issue can be overcome by the choice of which product will or won’t work with these files, though there is no reasonable way to force that in the distribution of files, so that shouldn’t be a necessary step. 

That's just how these things go sometimes.  We shouldn't fault Chief because other apps can't get their act together. 

 

1 hour ago, KTransue said:

4) The problem can probably be overcome by the product generating the PDFs if they are generated without transparency, though that’s not a desirable solution for those that want to be able to post-process PDF files. 

Read my second to last post again.  It's not desirable for more reasons than post processing.  It's a notable issue for sharp lines and curves since those vectors then need to be converted to pixelated images. 

 

1 hour ago, KTransue said:

5) The problem can probably also be overcome by Chief in a more universally acceptable way by generating the PDF file using Chief’s PDF generator (that seems to have been proven to produce the best quality file for Chief), and then also flattening the PDF file before it is saved, if that file is to be distributed and/or printed. 

We can already do this using another PDF generator.  The problem as I see it though that is getting glossed over a bit is that the very reason Chief's PDF generator produces a better quality product in the first place is because of the transparency.  Remove the transparency and you remove most of the reason for using Chief's PDF generator in the ofrst place. 

[Chopsaw]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:28 AM, KTransue said:

then also flattening the PDF file before it is saved, if that file is to be distributed and/or printed.

 

Hi Kevin,   I located the file that I sent out and the subcontractor had the issue with but can not get it to fail and print a black background.  I tried viewers by Internet Explorer, Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome.  Could you possibly post or send me a page form the one you know will not work properly and I will see if I can flatten it for testing on your printer ?  Then we will know if that is the problem and if it is tied to the transparency settings or not.  Pretty sure it would be relatively easy for chief to add that option as I think a lot of users would also appreciate that as a security feature.

[Alaskan_Son]

5 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

 

Hi Kevin,   I located the file that I sent out and the subcontractor had the issue with but can not get it to fail and print a black background.  I tried viewers by Internet Explorer, Microsoft Edge, Google Chrome.  Could you possibly post or send me a page form the one you know will not work properly and I will see if I can flatten it for testing on your printer ?  Then we will know if that is the problem and if it is tied to the transparency settings or not.  Pretty sure it would be relatively easy for chief to add that option as I think a lot of users would also appreciate that as a security feature.

It’s been mentioned many times in this thread, but the most consistently problematic app is Preview.  When people say they’re printing from Preview, it’s not a generic term.  It’s an app on the Mac platform (just in case you were missing that detail). 

[Chopsaw]

1 minute ago, Alaskan_Son said:

It’s been mentioned many times in this thread, but the most consistently problematic app is Preview.  When people say they’re printing from Preview, it’s not a generic term.  It’s an app on the Mac platform (just in case you were missing that detail). 

 

Yes I understood that but as a PC user I don't have it.   Are you aware of other apps that cause the "problem" ?

[Alaskan_Son]

Google slides is another one that I know has shown problems.  But again, it’s mostly only problematic on Macs as far as I know.  I think you are wasting your time testing to see if its related to transparency or not. It’s a well-documented issue and we KNOW it’s related to the transparency.

[KTransue]

The question is no longer whether or not it’s related to transparency, but whether it might be controllable at the generation of the PDF rather than leaving it to chance as to who might be opening the PDF and attempting to print it. Rather than leaving it up to the population at large to advise their clients, subcontractors, etc, not to utilize their favorite viewers to print, a better solution to the problem might be to ensure it will print in the first place, and that may be able to be accomplished at the time of generation, if the creator already knows that their file will be distributed for printing. 

[KTransue]

@Chopsaw, I’ll have to consider this in the morning. Thanks for continuing to work to determine a solution, whether or not Chief might choose to implement it. 

[kylejmarsh]

Is anybody still having this issue with X13?

[DG1949]

17 hours ago, kylejmarsh said:

Is anybody still having this issue with X13?

For me, it started with X13. But macOS has also updated (before I noticed the problem.)

I get a black page when I print the OP's PDF out of Preview, but it prints fine with Adobe Acrobat. I've never encountered this until X13. This makes me think the issue is with Preview AND X13, but it certainly can't be X13 by itself, or else Acrobat wouldn't work either. 

[DG1949]

19 hours ago, kylejmarsh said:

Is anybody still having this issue with X13?

Back again, Kyle. 

Had a chance to test my Mac system this morning. Someone else suggested creating a PDF through the System Print dialog, so I tried it, and when you create it there (using Preview as the "Printer"), the resultant PDF prints as it's supposed to. 

So now, it seems to me that the problem resides in the "Chief Architect Save As PDF" function. For whatever reason, Acrobat is just "immune" to the problem, but Preview is not. 

[Chopsaw]

6 hours ago, DG1949 said:

So now, it seems to me that the problem resides in the "Chief Architect Save As PDF" function. For whatever reason, Acrobat is just "immune" to the problem, but Preview is not. 

 

I would probably have to disagree with that in principal since Adobe invented PDF's and sets the standards.  My preliminary conclusion would have to be that Apple has decided not to follow the standards for whatever reason.  Great observations though, but not likely enough to make a final conclusion.

 

If you were able to generate the PDF with Preview and then view and print it properly with Adobe Reader then I think you could draw a conclusion.

[KTransue]

Read back through this thread for a history of contemplation and consideration on this issue. We know the technical reasons why. What we don’t know, or didn’t at the time, is whether or not this issue can be addressed by the PDF generator in the first place, preventing it from becoming a problem at all.