Framing moving when wall layers changed

[stephenbc]

Can anyone tell me how one can add an external layer to a wall definition without having the framing magically move outward from the main layer when the modified wall type is saved?  My framing is pretty much manually adjusted, so having the auto framing feature on isn't a solution.  And, moving all the studs, sill plates, and blocking back to where it should be is quite a pain.  The layer being added isn't affecting the main (framing) layer, so I don't know why it magically moves the framing outward, well into the external layers.

After layer added.pdf

Before layer added.pdf

[stephenbc]

7 minutes ago, solver said:

Please help us by posting images directly -- no need to make a PDF of an image. This makes it easier for others as an image shows in the forum.

 

 

My apologies...

[stephenbc]

3 minutes ago, solver said:

Thanks. Are you sure the framing is moving and not the walls?

 

My analysis shows that the framing is moving, not the wall.

[stephenbc]

11 minutes ago, solver said:

Could you post a demo plan? Just 4 walls with framing built, and a few feet of your new wall drawn off to the side

 

In preparation for answering your question, I drew 4 walls and framed them...twice.  On the left set I modified the wall type, adding another layer between the house wrap and the siding. Once saved, the framing moved as you can see in the attached plan.  

 

On the right set of walls I created a copy of the wall type before modifying it with the additional layer.  When I saved it, the framing stayed in what would appear to be the proper location.

 

Interesting results.  It would appear that making another copy of the wall definition resolves the issue...but I need to test this on my working model, not the demo presented here.

Framing issue.plan

[glennw]

Looks to me like your Main layer could be your air gap.

When you change a wall definition with already built framing (and auto wall framing turned off), the wall framing will relocate to centre on the main layer -  but it will keep its original size.

You could also check what your Resize About setting is.

 

PS We posted at the same time.  I will look at your plan when I get a moment.  

[stephenbc]

11 minutes ago, glennw said:

Looks to me like your Main layer could be your air gap.

When you change a wall definition with already built framing (and auto wall framing turned off), the wall framing will relocate to centre on the main layer -  but it will keep its original size.

You could also check what your Resize About setting is.

 

PS We posted at the same time.  I will look at your plan when I get a moment.  

Glenn...perhaps you could expand on what you mean by the main layer being an air gap...not sure I understand.

 

I've also checked each radio button option in the resize about setting for General Walls and it appears not to affect anything.

[glennw]

8 minutes ago, stephenbc said:

Glenn...perhaps you could expand on what you mean by the main layer being an air gap...not sure I understand.

 

I assumed that the wall layer on the outside of the stud wall was an air gap, I can now see that it is an OSB layer.

Did you ever have that layer designated a main layer?

 

8 minutes ago, stephenbc said:

I've also checked each radio button option in the resize about setting for General Walls and it appears not to affect anything.

 

You will only see the effect of this if you make a change to the options and then redefine a wall type - nothing will happen by just changing an option.

 

I am having a play and trying to figure out what is happening.

If I delete the housewrap layer from the left hand room walls, the framing snaps back to the main or framing layer.

 

But, if I do the same to the right hand room walls, the framing snaps back so that it is centred on the drywall layer. 

[glennw]

The wall framing is on the left (Siding-6) walls is centering on the OSB layer for some reason.

[stephenbc]

39 minutes ago, glennw said:

 

I assumed that the wall layer on the outside of the stud wall was an air gap, I can now see that it is an OSB layer.

Did you ever have that layer designated a main layer?

 

Yes.

 

40 minutes ago, glennw said:

You will only see the effect of this if you make a change to the options and then redefine a wall type - nothing will happen by just changing an option.

 

 

Yes, I understand that.  Nothing happens when each option is selected for each modification of the wall.

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, glennw said:

I am having a play and trying to figure out what is happening.

If I delete the housewrap layer from the left hand room walls, the framing snaps back to the main or framing layer.

 

But, if I do the same to the right hand room walls, the framing snaps back so that it is centred on the drywall layer. 

 

It's certainly very odd behaviour.

[glennw]

20 minutes ago, stephenbc said:

 

1 hour ago, glennw said:

 

I assumed that the wall layer on the outside of the stud wall was an air gap, I can now see that it is an OSB layer.

Did you ever have that layer designated a main layer?

 

Yes.

 

 

It is a bit hard to say exactly the cause of this, but I suspect it has something to do with the wall layer settings when you built and/or edited the wall framing.

 

Can you remember what the wall definition was when you built the framing?

[stephenbc]

47 minutes ago, glennw said:

Can you remember what the wall definition was when you built the framing?

 

Should be as is in attached plan above.  It's basically a CA template standard.

[glennw]

1 hour ago, stephenbc said:

 

Should be as is in attached plan above.  It's basically a CA template standard

 

Yes, but you did say that you changed the main layer.

[stephenbc]

32 minutes ago, glennw said:

Yes, but you did say that you changed the main layer.

No.

[glennw]

9 hours ago, stephenbc said:

 

9 hours ago, glennw said:

 

I assumed that the wall layer on the outside of the stud wall was an air gap, I can now see that it is an OSB layer.

Did you ever have that layer designated a main layer?

 

Yes.

 

Oh, OK, I thought you said the above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stephenbc]

Ah, I miss-interpreted your initial question on that, so the correct answer is no.  The main layer was always and only the stud portion of the wall.  Sorry for the confusion.

[stephenbc]

One thing to note regarding this whole thread is that there appears to be a work-around to this problem...at least until CA fixes it! 

 

That work-around is to physically create a copy of the wall definition you want to modify, make your modification to the layers in that copy, save the new definition and apply it to the wall for which you want the layers changed.  This will ensure that the framing will not magically move out of the correct position. 

[stephenbc]

2 minutes ago, solver said:

How were you changing the walls that caused the problem?

I added a 2" layer of external insulation between the house wrap and the siding.

 

3 minutes ago, solver said:

Had you already defined the wall?

Yes, and framed it.

 

3 minutes ago, solver said:

Did you group select and just change the wall type?

No group select. I modified the wall definition by first selecting the wall.

 

Solver...perhaps you could try the same actions I did.  Open the plan file I attached, click on the wall and open its definition, add the 2" layer, save and watch the framing move.  Did you get the same results?

[Kbird1]

It appears the change was made to an existing wall definition - Siding 6 - rather than copying it and then applying the rigid foam layer.

(Chief does have a continuous insul. Wall type btw )

 

however the Framing fixed itself right up when I turned auto wall framing back on in the plan posted above.

[robdyck]

3 hours ago, stephenbc said:

One thing to note regarding this whole thread is that there appears to be a work-around to this problem...at least until CA fixes it! 

 

That work-around is to physically create a copy of the wall definition you want to modify, make your modification to the layers in that copy, save the new definition and apply it to the wall for which you want the layers changed.  This will ensure that the framing will not magically move out of the correct position. 

Very Clever! Although this whole topic feels buggy to me. You can add layers to the inside without the framing jumping, but not to the outside? Something ain't right.

[robdyck]

I think this is a bug and should be reported to Chief. You can't even add a zero thickness layer like housewrap to the exterior without having the framing jump out of place.