pgjacob

Darker attic/knee walls in PBR

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Hi All

I have noticed this for a long time but just never got around to asking about it (I just upgraded to X11):

 

In PBR, when I have a vaulted or high ceiling, the higher part of the wall is darker.  It is perfectly linear at the point where the color changes.  This is not the case in Standard or in ray trace views.  Sometimes I noticed that my upper wall is a little skewed away from the lower wall, but not always.  I have added point lights up high but that doesn't help.  I tried different settings in the PB (while talking to tech support) and that didn't help.  And I tried to adjust the sunlight into the room.  Didn't help either.  The fact that the color change is SO exact worries me.  I have attached images.  I like to use PB in walkthroughs and panoramas.

 

On a side note, when trying to ensure that my attic walls were in line with my lower walls, the reference display set in X11 didn't show floor 1 in red as it usually does.  Not sure if it is an x11 bug.

 

thanks

melissa

 

standard.jpg

PBR dark wall.jpg

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AO , (and Bloom) is supposed to make lighting and shadows in Corners more "natural" but in some case it goes overboard.....it looks like it still thinks you have a Flat Ceiling.

 

Try turning down Ambient Occlusion in the Camera Specification DBX down.....I usually go for about 30% but that is personal, at 100% it seems to change Colours etc to me.

 

If that doesn't work , try turning off RCSS 1st , then Shadows altogether...also in the Camera's Spec. DBX.

 

M.

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Ah, nothing seems to work.  I do have ceiling planes in the room and started tweaking them to no avail.  Probably will send to tech support at some point.

 

Thanks for the advice

melissa

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Ha, interestingly, when I change the ceiling plane to be just a tad away from the wall (leaving a small space open), the colors reverse....  When the ceiling plane is pulled well over the wall top, it's dark on top.  When the ceiling plane is pulled away from the wall, it is light on top... 

opposite.PNG

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42 minutes ago, pgjacob said:

Ah, nothing seems to work.  I do have ceiling planes in the room and started tweaking them to no avail.  Probably will send to tech support at some point.

 

Thanks for the advice

melissa

 

The Colour change in the Pics looks like the Flat Ceiling Line to me , which is why I thought perhaps the AO was "confused" , as I have seen weird Shadows in PBR on unexpected Surfaces , eg where it think the item in question is inside when in fact it is Outside etc.

 

Sounds like you have Custom Ceiling Planes? just pull them to the Walls' Framing layer , no further if they are , or perhaps just touch the drywall if that doesn't work.

 

PS best to post the Plan File so someone can have a peek for you...

 

M.

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plan is too big zipped.  And when I cut the area out of the larger plan to make a smaller plan of just the area in question, the problem goes away...  So there is something structurally I have done that can be removed to make this dark area go away.  I just need to play with it a while and see. 

 

If there is a way to share a larger file (50MB+) or "excise" the "offending" area more accurately, then I can try that.

 

thanks

melissa

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31 minutes ago, pgjacob said:

If there is a way to share a larger file

goto CAD/Cad Detail Management and select "purge." Save plan and check to see if that significantly reduced your .plan file size

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1 minute ago, pgjacob said:

plan is too big zipped.  And when I cut the area out of the larger plan to make a smaller plan of just the area in question, the problem goes away...  So there is something structurally I have done that can be removed to make this dark area go away.  I just need to play with it a while and see. 

 

If there is a way to share a larger file (50MB+) or "excise" the "offending" area more accurately, then I can try that.

 

thanks

melissa

No problem. I have been able to replicate it. Just trying to understand exactly what's going on. Seems to only occur when you have a defined room within/under the vaulted ceiling and the generated attic walls. It seems that CA is having an issue determining if the attic walls belong to the room or not from a lighting perspective. If it gets this wrong then those surfaces will be lit using some other light that's different from the light within the room. 

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Ok, I purged CADs and plan is still 50+MB.  But looks like Kitchen Abode has replicated, so I am glad it is not just me!  I also sent in a ticket to tech support.

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42 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

No problem. I have been able to replicate it. Just trying to understand exactly what's going on. Seems to only occur when you have a defined room within/under the vaulted ceiling and the generated attic walls. It seems that CA is having an issue determining if the attic walls belong to the room or not from a lighting perspective. If it gets this wrong then those surfaces will be lit using some other light that's different from the light within the room. 

 

 Interesting.....looks like I was partially right....ie PBR lighting confusion :)

 

Did you try Balloon Framing the Walls ? ( how it would be done ITRW ) so CA doesn't generate an "Attic Wall"

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I tried ballooning and didn't seem to help.  I did reverse the wall direction and that worked but screwed up the wall.  Fortunately I only care about the appearance rather than the actual structure....  so I can use polyline solids to also fix.  It's just a pain.  But would like to know the cause so I could not replicate it in the future.  Hopefully I will also hear back from tech support.

 

thanks

melissa

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1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

 Interesting.....looks like I was partially right....ie PBR lighting confusion :)

 

Did you try Balloon Framing the Walls ? ( how it would be done ITRW ) so CA doesn't generate an "Attic Wall"

 

Yes, it certainly looks to be related to some type of confusion. Just a tricky one because it does not seem to happen consistently. So far it seems to have narrowed down to the connections between the attic walls, roof and the roofs supporting exterior walls. Appears that if these are not "100%" correct then CA either can't determine correctly if the wall is an attic wall or not from a lighting perspective or, these incomplete connections allow exterior light to enter the attic and changes how CA lights the surfaces.

 

I did try ballooning the walls but that did not solve the issue.

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Thanks, I figured that had something to do with it.  I admit I am not good at roofs at all.  I just move the edges around alot until it looks right....if I created a cleaner plan, I probably won't see it.  So I guess fixing my roof inadequacies with polyline solids is the price to pay (for now).  Hopefully my roof creation will improve with time.  This house has a pretty complex roof plan.  I started it a long time ago and it is just easier to keep it rather than start all over with better technique...

 

Thanks again for everyone's help.

image.thumb.png.d98160f2d161b876fb4dbd25cd2875b1.png

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Here is a plan that demonstrates this in action.

 

Open up the PBR Camera. The attic gable wall shows two color depths. Click on the lighter one and drag it back to the left or right. You will notice that the other CA generated one will be darker. If you drag the main lighter color one all the way to the right exterior wall the CA generated one will disappear. Grab the main one again and drag to the left and the darker one will come back. if you change the camera type to Standard View it does not show, just when PBR'ing.

 

Everything in here was auto-built and the auto functions are still active.

 

Abode_Dark Attic Wall.plan

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I raised the ceiling to 300" and Chief builds a single wall from the floor to the roof.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.e3c3b03d896e1cf856e790578bf1a465.jpg

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27 minutes ago, solver said:

I raised the ceiling to 300" and Chief builds a single wall from the floor to the roof.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.e3c3b03d896e1cf856e790578bf1a465.jpg

 

Yes there are ways to overcome this. The point is that this should not happen to begin with. That new CA auto generated attic wall should match the original auto generated one.

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Yes, exactly what I see.  Hopefully tech support will find the bug and correct it.  Thanks for everyone's help

melissa

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Hello All

Got an answer from Tech Support and it works for me:

 



The problem is that the attic walls in question need to be refreshed. To do this:

1. Turn on Automatically Generate Attic Walls in the General Wall Defaults dialog.

2. Go to Floor A in your plan and delete the attic walls in the area of the Casita.

3. Select Build> Floor> Rebuild Walls/Floors/Ceiling - or just press the F12 key - a couple of times to rebuild walls.

4. Create a new camera view using Physically Based Rendering in the Casita to see the results.

5. You can turn off Automatically Generate Attic Walls again at this point if you wish.

I hope that this information is helpful.

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