Origin Offset of symbols

[mbondu]

Hello,

I am working to build my library in Chief, we are manufacturer of dovetails log home (square logs). The dovetail are 1" extend of the walls. I built them as a symbol to put in the standard wall corners.I have set the origin offset to fit in 3D but in 2D, it is not flush to the wall, I have tried to play with the bounding box without success, when it look good in 2D, it is wrong in 3D. what do I make wrong? 

 

Thanks!

 

Mathieu

DOVETAIL-library.plan

[Chopsaw]

First off.  Are you using X10 ?  Just a quick preliminary guess that you need to open the Symbol Specification DBX ( Dialogue Box ) and go to the 2D Block tab and use the "Generate Block" button after you are finished resizing things.  Will take a look at the library file if that does not work for you.

[Joe_Carrick]

I have done several of log homes, both square dovetail and swedish cope.  I have symbols for both which I "stack" within a transparent full log thickness wall, centering the logs on those walls.  This also allow me to place Doors and Windows in those Walls.  I do not use "Corner Log Symbols", rather I use actual "Log Symbols" to stack just as if I was building the structure in the field.

 

The Log Symbol Libraries naturally have to have several different Logs to accommodate Sill & Top conditions as well as the various end conditions.

[mbondu]

How do I change the category after the post is done, do I need to delete it

 

50 minutes ago, solver said:

Welcome to ChiefTalk Mathieu.

 

Please post questions in General Q&A. Tips & Techniques is where you share tips and techniques.
 

And,

 

Please take a minute to fill out your signature (see mine for an example) by clicking on your user name at the top right of the page, click Account Settings, then Signature on the left. 

 

This info helps others help you.

Your version of Chief (X9, X10) (Premier, Interiors) is the important info.

 

Make sure you turn on View Signatures too.

 

 

[Joe_Carrick]

2 minutes ago, mbondu said:

How do I change the category after the post is done, do I need to delete it

In order to maintain any responses you can contact a CA moderator to move it.  If you want, I can report the topic and have that done.

 

Otherwise you would need to delete it and repost in the correct forum.  That would lose all the existing responses.

[mbondu]

15 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

In order to maintain any responses you can contact a CA moderator to move it.  If you want, I can report the topic and have that done.

 

Otherwise you would need to delete it and repost in the correct forum.  That would lose all the existing responses.

you can report it, thanks

 

 

[mbondu]

1 hour ago, Chopsaw said:

First off.  Are you using X10 ?  Just a quick preliminary guess that you need to open the Symbol Specification DBX ( Dialogue Box ) and go to the 2D Block tab and use the "Generate Block" button after you are finished resizing things.  Will take a look at the library file if that does not work for you.

Yes, I have done this several time, but if I am able to move the origin to fit correctly in 3D, even after I generate the 2D, it is not showing correctly on the plan

 

[Chopsaw]

Ok, I guess I am still better at building log homes than figuring out the intricacies of chief symbols.  It seems ok without the offsets.  There is a slight measurement discrepancy somewhere as point to point does not quite place it in the exact position when referenced off of the inside corner of the outside wall layer.  What was the logic in moving the point of origin ?

[mbondu]

59 minutes ago, Chopsaw said:

Ok, I guess I am still better at building log homes than figuring out the intricacies of chief symbols.  It seems ok without the offsets.  There is a slight measurement discrepancy somewhere as point to point does not quite place it in the exact position when referenced off of the inside corner of the outside wall layer.  What was the logic in moving the point of origin ?

I moved the point of origin to a distance where it was looking good from a 3d view

 

[Chopsaw]

This is what I see by removing the 1 13/16" offsets and carefully positioning at the corner because it is just off by a smidge to snap correctly.

[MarkMc]

13 hours ago, mbondu said:

I moved the point of origin to a distance where it was looking good from a 3d view

 

I took your symbol and made a new one from it-"fixtures exterior"-options inserts into wall-set depth to 4-5/8; NO origin offestes.

One side will flush out fine, have to move it for the second side but easy enough just using arrow key.

Once one is placed I used copy reflect to get them on the other corners.

It is off a tad as Chop notes- I think it's off by the thickness of the faces  you used to build it (don't remember if they are 1/64 or 1/128 but I think it's 64)

We met in Idaho and talked about this some, I rummaged through my archives and double checked but we did not bother with the corners.

Joe's idea is worth a shot too. A spin off of that is to build some complete wall symbols with cutouts, saving the plans to be able to adjust the cutouts as needed.

Forgot- when I say entire walls as symbols I mean as fixtures exterior-either inserts into or hangs on a wall. Which my make dealing with textures easier (as does Joe's method)

 

Dovetail Inserts.plan

[mbondu]

50 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

I took your symbol and made a new one from it-"fixtures exterior"-options inserts into wall-set depth to 4-5/8; NO origin offestes.

One side will flush out fine, have to move it for the second side but easy enough just using arrow key.

Once one is placed I used copy reflect to get them on the other corners.

It is off a tad as Chop notes- I think it's off by the thickness of the faces  you used to build it (don't remember if they are 1/64 or 1/128 but I think it's 64)

We met in Idaho and talked about this some, I rummaged through my archives and double checked but we did not bother with the corners.

Joe's idea is worth a shot too. A spin off of that is to build some complete wall symbols with cutouts, saving the plans to be able to adjust the cutouts as needed.

Forgot- when I say entire walls as symbols I mean as fixtures exterior-either inserts into or hangs on a wall. Which my make dealing with textures easier (as does Joe's method)

 

Dovetail Inserts.plan

Thank you, it look great, I will also look at Joe suggestion about hidden wall and decide witch one is the best for us because we do 100% of our plans this way, the simpler for us will be the better. For the moment, I am not sure to fully understand his way, I will need to check it back.

 

[mbondu]

13 hours ago, Chopsaw said:

This is what I see by removing the 1 13/16" offsets and carefully positioning at the corner because it is just off by a smidge to snap correctly.

Thank you, I review it and it is working now.

[mbondu]

18 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

I have done several of log homes, both square dovetail and swedish cope.  I have symbols for both which I "stack" within a transparent full log thickness wall, centering the logs on those walls.  This also allow me to place Doors and Windows in those Walls.  I do not use "Corner Log Symbols", rather I use actual "Log Symbols" to stack just as if I was building the structure in the field.

 

The Log Symbol Libraries naturally have to have several different Logs to accommodate Sill & Top conditions as well as the various end conditions.

Thanks Joe for your suggestion, I just want to make sure I fully understand, so you make hidden walls to keep the ability to put windows and doors in it and after, you apply row logs on top of each other, so it means you have to make solid subtract each time a window size stop somewhere in part of a log?  

[Joe_Carrick]

4 hours ago, mbondu said:

Thanks Joe for your suggestion, I just want to make sure I fully understand, so you make hidden walls to keep the ability to put windows and doors in it and after, you apply row logs on top of each other, so it means you have to make solid subtract each time a window size stop somewhere in part of a log?  

 

Actually, after placing a log I just drag the log the end back to the window or door rough opening.  Then I copy-repeat it vertically to add courses.  If there are several openings then I have short logs between them (without notches).  Basically a wall will consist of logs with notches on both ends, one just one end, & on neither end.  IOW, I nave symbols for each log type.  They have stretch planes set at x=0 which means they can be stretched in length without effecting the notch geometry.  Stretch planes at  y = 1 & z=-1 prevent the depth and height from being inadvertently modified.

 

In most cases, my wall type will have a central layer representing the chinking (gray mortar) and then an inner & an outer transparent layer to make up the total wall thickness (matching the overall Log widths). 

 

My procedure for creating the model is almost exactly the same as the process of building the log home.

 

 

 

 

[mbondu]

1 hour ago, Joe_Carrick said:

 

Actually, after placing a log I just drag the log the end back to the window or door rough opening.  Then I copy-repeat it vertically to add courses.  If there are several openings then I have short logs between them (without notches).  Basically a wall will consist of logs with notches on both ends, one just one end, & on neither end.  IOW, I nave symbols for each log type.  They have stretch planes set at x=0 which means they can be stretched in length without effecting the notch geometry.  Stretch planes at  y = 1 & z=-1 prevent the depth and height from being inadvertently modified.

 

In most cases, my wall type will have a central layer representing the chinking (gray mortar) and then an inner & an outer transparent layer to make up the total wall thickness (matching the overall Log widths). 

 

My procedure for creating the model is almost exactly the same as the process of building the log home.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, I fully understand now, however our system is a kind of hybrid wall with 5" log outside and multilayers standard wall attached to it, so to keep all other automatics fonctions on the wall as cad details etc. I prefer the use of corner.