ChiefGrego

Roofs That do not follow The Rules

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The Footprint of the floorplan is much longer than the width of the plan and I am trying to create what I think is a cross gable roof plan.  

see attached.  Using a saltbox style roof, I can come up with a very close rendering of what I want the front of the house to look like but am really struggling with extending the roof all the way to the back of the house in a way that seems workable for framing and also the overall look of the roof shape.  You will also notice the plate heights vary depending on the style..Also, moving walls just a bit to smooth out the roof or reduce the number of ridges.  

 

The question has to do with the planning of what needs to happen to directives in the roof planes and walls and the location of the walls as plate heights change.  

 

Currently for me it is trial and error with the auto roof tools and manual changes, pushing walls in and out and raising and lowering plates to see what the result is and hoping I eventually get the look I set out for.  There must be a better way to approach the roof than trial and error.  

Could not get the plan file to load

greghouse.jpg

berkshire floorplan.jpg

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14 minutes ago, ChiefGrego said:

Could not get the plan file to load

 

 Did you zip it? Helps those with slow connections, and sometimes seems to help with the upload process.

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I'll Try Zip.... I think I have the back but still has been a real chore maybe it comes with experience

 

Front still has added ridge over the porch....the 1st plane should flow into the one above.....Ssorry do not knowhow to draw arrows

ZoyeA (2).zip

xyz untitled 1.jpg

Untitled 112.jpg

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That one is empty. Make sure it's not open in Chief.

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Here is my version. The roof is all auto built. I added a few walls (shown in green) to help the program build the roof I wanted. Once the roof is set, the walls may be deleted.

 

Roofs build over rooms, so I mostly increased the size of the room, and corresponding ceiling heights, as a way of manipulating the generated roof.

 

The new walls at the rear form a room with No Roof Over This Room set, because of the way the program does roofs with mixed pitches. 

 

I set the pitch/upper pitch in the exterior wall too, as I prefer to see the same pitch leading up to a ridge.

 

Post back with any questions.

 

I also noticed many dimensions ending in 16ths, 3/16, 7/16 etc. If I were building this place, I would much prefer 1/2' as the smallest fraction.

 

cg 1.zip

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11 minutes ago, GeneDavis said:

Saltbox style?  Really?

 

 

2018-02-09_0920.png

Same thing I was thinking.  I would take a second look at that terminology Grego.

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So I could be explaining it wrong.  If you look at the front of the house rendering: note that the ridge is moving side to side.  (on another version the ridges goes all the way to gables at sides).  Looking at the floor plan the house design is much longer than the house plan is wide.  I Think Chief is going to run the main ridge with the longest run of the house.  (in this case front to back).  This is what I am talking about when I titled this "roofs that Don't follow the rules"  I called it salt box style because I set the back wall derivative's to a really low pitch and then built the roof at 14 pitch to move the main ridge toward the front of the house and running side to side.  I have been wrestling with this roof for much time and it has evolved since then.  The question has to do with my approach to the building a roof rather than just trial and error of raising plate heights or wall derivitives or moving walls in and out of position.  Not sure if that clears up the question

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Its all good.  If we get the terminology too screwed up communication just starts to break down.  Whether you used the term correctly or not, I see now why you described it a saltbox actually, and I didn't realize it before but Gene posted a picture of Eric's sample plan not your plan. 

 

On a side note, it would still really help to see the plan file. 

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25 minutes ago, ChiefGrego said:

Not sure if that clears up the question

 

What is your question? 

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28 minutes ago, ChiefGrego said:

The question has to do with my approach to the building a roof rather than just trial and error of raising plate heights or wall derivitives or moving walls in and out of position.  Not sure if that clears up the question

The question really had to do with approaching roof plans that may be a little more challenging than basic roofs in a more methodical way than the trial and error way I have worked with this one.  It has just taken me a really long time and was looking for a little insight.  Just wondering how others do it.  

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Its really a matter of personal preference and the look you're going for if you ask me.  I'm personally not a huge fan of hip roofs and tend to use gables a lot more often.  Having said that, I think with your example, with the least amount of tweaking, I would consider changing all your roof pitches to something more like a 10:12 with the exception of the front and back wall.  Maybe change those to something like a 7:12.

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Assuming that the floor plan and room heights were set, and that the house would have a hip roof, I would start by auto building the roof, and would see something like this.

 

ct3.thumb.jpg.6e5417526652320961e35b8401b0989b.jpg

 

I would add a couple of temporary walls to clean up the left front, resulting in this.

 

ct1.thumb.jpg.d059a03504b1db1f07ef72a567b3e4a3.jpg

 

Wanting to force the ridge to run side to side, I would make settings in a wall that would result in this.

 

ct2.thumb.jpg.f0cd0c1bdbd82eb0a43dfd8b12d95ab1.jpg

 

 

Ceiling heights can change how a roof builds, but starting with all rooms at the same height, I would auto build the roof, and make adjustments to get the look I was after, or at least be close enough that I could see the manual changes needed to get there.

 

I drew your plan from the floor plan image you posted above -- exterior walls and just enough interior walls to create the rooms with a raised ceiling, added the roof and made a few adjustments in about 10 minutes, resulting in the plan I posted above.

 

I'm curious what part of the process you found challenging and time consuming. Maybe I or someone else could be more specific.

 

You are welcome to take this off line via PM if you wish.

 

 

 

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Grego's in Austin, where it seems to me, pitches on new roofs are either pretty low, like a prairie style, or steep, as in what some might call French or country French.

 

 

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Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but it's a method I've done on lots of houses in Texas.  I just lowered the roof pitch on the back half of the house to a 6:12 so I could have the main left-to-right ridge defined by 13:12 roof pitches, framed from an interior wall about halfway toward the back of the house.  That frameline is really arbitrary until you want to determine how high you want the highest ridge.  Pull that roof plane forward and it'll lower the ridge.  Push it back and it'll raise it.  I never use the automatic roof function so all of these planes were done manually.

 

When I saved the chief file I saw that you're on a version older than x10.  I went ahead and saved it to x10 but I've uploaded some screen shots too.

Roof Solution Front 02.jpg

Roof Solution Rear Overview.jpg

Roof Solution Roof Plan.jpg

Roof Solution Front 01.jpg

Trying to Zip plan.zip

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around here hip roofs cost a lot more than gable roofs (conventally built) b/c we need to build all or most hips using beams for the hips and valleys and also to brace where the hip meets the ridge with ceiling beams, then you need to bring that load down to the floor and a possible conc. pad or another floor beam to carry the loads. Trusses eliminate all that...

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10 hours ago, solver said:

I also noticed many dimensions ending in 16ths, 3/16, 7/16 etc. If I were building this place, I would much prefer 1/2' as the smallest fraction.

 

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I messed up the walls playing with the roof and will have to go back and clean them up again.... Thanks Solver, I had missed your earlier  post and really appreciate you breaking down the steps..   Also not opposed to lowering the pitch;and using more gables Alaska,  but was trying for a certain look. (call it "English, Maybe") .  The end result is suppose to flatten or lower the pitch at the overhangs (not sure the term) and add a round top dormer above the window at the front room Breaking up the hips. (AgChief)  (Still struggling with the auto dormers.) , Between the two, AgChiefs Manually built roof and Solvers Autobuilt, wondering  which works the best.. if either  

8 hours ago, AgChief said:

framed from an interior wall about halfway toward the back of the house.  That frameline is really arbitrary

Framing from an interior wall?....I did think about it and at one point changed an interior wall type to an exterior type hoping to trick Chief.  A

 

Thanks for all the effort. This really helped..gonna try again both manual and auto.........sounds like practice is key to quick...

 

The Goal....  make Texas Big Boxes unique 

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1 hour ago, ChiefGrego said:

Also not opposed to lowering the pitch;and using more gables Alaska,

 

You could just lower the pitches without adding any gables.  All I did after opening up your plan was changed the pitches to 10:12 via wall settings...except for that front and back wall which I changed to a 7:12 and the result was a perfectly acceptable hip roof in my opinion.  Would it be my ultimate choice?  I don’t know.  Only reason I mentioned gables was to suggest that when you’re dealing with what seems to be a very challenging roof, that you not limit yourself by trying to force a style that’s just not working very well.  Didn’t mean to say one was better than the other.  Just wanted to throw an alternative out there that might open up your options.   

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