HumbleChief

Probably correct, thanks Mick.

I agree David and also think my above comment wasn't taken in the sarcastic spirit it was intended.

Not trying to justify my logic just more trying to point out what I would like to see in the structure dbx. I would like to see the ceiling and walls drop when the ceiling height is changed, AND have the floor of the room above remain where it is. I know that's not the way Chief works - I just wish it was. If you watched the video to the end, how else would you lower the wall height other than manually as I showed? There's no ceiling/soffit over that room just an open area. It's done now by manually changing the wall heights in 3D but again, just perhaps an illustration of a simpler way of approaching Chief. I also understand how complex the entire process is but I'm going to try and think of simpler ways Chief might work in the future.

That's the challenge in a nut shell - understanding how Chief is working. At some point I think it sinks in, where/when that point is, is another matter.

Scott, I included that last vid as maybe some fodder for some input/output during that meeting. If it's relevant fine, if not, fine too.

Here's another example of how my brain fights the way Chief works. Simple answer of course is to learn how Chief works but the illustration might be helpful if we choose to help re-design this function.

I agree, there's no reason to lend a helping to hand to anyone who doesn't speak my language or to anyone who has the courage and temerity to learn English as a second language.

Agreed, There's no simple answer and the structure dbx has been around for many, many years and many, many versions of Chief. I know that if Chief's programmers take on the challenge they will be wildly successful judging by all the recent changes but it is quite a challenge. Maybe the UGM meeting in Idaho will shed some light? Expectations are low but hope abounds.

There's some really good things about the current Structure dbx (actually can't think of any but that's a good way to start a discussion) and some bad things. Those good and bad things are only relevant if you can wrap your mind around the paradigm they've chosen. Somehow the 'structure' behaves best if working from the top down. That is NOT an easy concept to grasp for those who have built houses and not an easy concept to grasp for certain minds that work in a very logical fashion. Right now one must grasp the hidden intent within the structure dbx and there are some who have done this brilliantly, others not so much. I, personally, expect simple things to occur. I change a floor height, the floor height should change. And it will unless there are 4 or 5 other parameters 'in the way' of that simple task. Those 4 or 5 parameters are hidden from the every day user and until all those things are grasped the model does not behave in a simple manner. In the example I posted I changed the heights in one room and all the heights in every other room changed. That's not a problem if you truly understand what Chief is doing under the hood but I think it's too hard to really understand those mechanics. I work with Chief all day every day and usually don't have a problem setting up my structures and have dome some pretty complex models but when stuck I can't apply my version of logic to find my way out. I'll emphasize 'my version' because I think these things are personal. Not everyone has a problem, and I don't have a problem on every plan because I've learned what needs to done but sometimes it is genuinely crazy making, again, to me. To modify the structure dbx might be a huge task, might be a few simple tweaks and I would not want the program to try and fit itself to a single user's misunderstanding of how the program is designed to work but there's something not quite right if the task becomes so difficult that users cannot find their way out of difficulties.

CALIBZ, Welcome, Can only assume English is not your native language? If it's not please try some different words, if it is your native language please share what you're taking with the rest of us.

So I change the room structure dbx of the room with the incorrect room height to match all the correct room heights and all the floors of every other room are forced down? Really? Even though the floor of the room is the same, corrected height? IOW I set the floor height to -24" and the room height to 97" in a single room and all the other floors are forced down to -31"? What? Even the floor I set to -24" is forced down to -31"? Huh? That defies logic doesn't it? I set a floor height to -24" and it's forced down to -31" because??? When I match properties everything works out just fine. I'm glad someone understands this.

That's probably the ultimate solution but I'm way too far along and need to get the ConDocs out. Will try that when I get a chance.

I would love to play Scott and we can use this model if it will help. Here's the challenge for me. I can take a new plan and set up a similar model with correct defaults, floor heights, structures etc. in about 5 minutes max. I know it doesn't look like that's true but it is, and I tried it again to compare this model's anomalies. So I have no real problem with the initial model. Something I did caused that -31/104 endless loop and I couldn't find a way out. Maybe there's a basic change I made that messed things up. Not sure. What about that last weird change the single room and change every other floor height thing? Is that expected?

Maybe, not sure that explains how all the other rooms changed heights with the now corrected defaults and the correct values entered in to the structure dbx of that single room. ALL the rooms reverted to the -31/104 heights that was the problem to begin with. Why?

Agreed, and I think it probably looks like that's the approach I took but I did not. I might have had the defaults set up wrong but I went through them systematically when first starting the model and the floor level were correct for a very long time, then they weren't. I know how lame that sounds and I must have changed something, somewhere, but please if someone has the time explain, that last anomaly. I changed the ceiling height in one room and all the rooms on that level changed their floor and ceiling heights, ignoring the new, and corrected by Perry, defaults..

I am pretty sure it looks like I ignored the defaults and just set about drawing a house and was hoping for something to magically work but that's far from the truth. This model was fine for a long time as I've been working on it for quite some time. Then it wasn't fine as I must have changed something unbeknownst and that room height/floor height went south. FYI the lower room is an existing room addition, not a garage, and the work to be done, is more room addition on the upper level though that shouldn't matter much. My biggest question is contained in the last video. I'll go back and post it here. I took Perry's model, which you can download, and I took a room that had the wrong heights, changed them to be correct in the room structure dbx and every other room changed heights. This has to be what I did somewhere along in the model and that's the part I don't get. I would get that -31 floor and 104 ceiling height over and over and even changing the single room height would get me that same -31/104. Must have changed the defaults? Here's the model as posted by Perry https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/6065-more-structure-dbx-challenges/?p=53240 Here's the part I find difficult to understand and the endless loop I was stuck in.

Joe, Didn't you find that a bit weird Joe that changing the ceiling height in that one room change all the floor and ceiling heights in all the other rooms?

One more anomaly that I wonder if you can understand. Both Joe and Perry's plans have the same (incorrect) ceiling height in this single room but when I change the ceiling height all the room floor and ceiling heights change....just discovered that if I check the default ceiling height it works, but not if entering values manually - didn't know that - and didn't know that entering ceiling heights in one room will change them in every other room.. I know by the time you see these plans they can be pretty screwed up from trying many different things but this plan was perfect, then it wasn't. Thanks again everyone.

I guess I was confused not thinking that the 'floor' of the foundation room should have been -24". That's not very real world, but one day it might sink into my thick skull. Thanks again for all the help.

Nothing there Joe

Thanks for all the help. Finally got it fixed using Robert's dbx's. Not sure where it went so far south. I'll check your plans Joe, Perry - Thanks. Scott, I have watched countless videos and they are very informative but sometimes I forget a few basics and can't re-run a specific video that pertains to this situation in my mind.

Thanks so much for taking the time you guys - really appreciate it. I tried so many different ways I forgot what plan I posted. I'll review everything again and see what I come up with. I had the floor structure defined in a different plan and tried it without just to see what I could come up with. I'll try again. Scott are you suggesting I put in the slab footings manually not using the room dbx?

Sigh. I run into this sort of thing constantly as well. Getting the model correct using Chief's tools seems to be a good idea but sometimes it's crazy making and requires knowledge of the program beyond my capabilities. Never really thought about using a p-line solid for the foundation but I guess it's possible. I'll try opening a new plan and see if there's a setting I'm missing somewhere. It has to be simple, no?

Been working on this for a while and am missing something. Any help appreciated. BTW the floor ceiling heights were perfect during some phase of the model creation. Desperate - thanks. Plan here FLOOR HEIGHTS 1.zip

Can't find it if there is but you can create a 'mask' of any shape you'd like.