Topo (stepped etc)

[johnny]

So before I request this under suggestions, I wanted to ask if there is any current way to have terrain data shown on elevation models..? Meaning, you get a graphical representation of what the terrain does in CA, but if you are looking at the model there is no reference to locate actual numerical differences in the terrain. The only way I see to do that is looking at a plan view of the terrain model.

Stepped topography is one way to see actual steps that relate to a specific measurement in elevation change. Another is Triangulated irregular grids/network.

Here are examples of both.

Stepped:

Triangulated irregular grids/network:

Glenn and Scott showed me a way before of getting the result of a stepped topo, but its very hard to work with other site elements (roads/walkways etc) after the method is used.

[BryceEngstrom]

Seems like a very idiosyncratic, have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too request.  A stepped terrain with non-stepped roads, features etc.?  To what end?

[johnny]

Seems like a very idiosyncratic, have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too request.  A stepped terrain with non-stepped roads, features etc.?  To what end?

 

So you know, its not a particular request - stepped terrain models with non-stepped roads and pathways are the norm.  Perhaps you didn't know that, but its probably the most common type terrain model among architects.

 

Here are a couple examples.

 

 

 

[RodCole]

There are ways of working with Chief models and Terrain and accomplish what you are after.

 

Here is just a simple Terrain model exported from Chief and then converted to a solid and sliced.  This model was only produced in order to illustrate what can be done using Chief and other programs in concert.  There are a few hoops to jump through, but text when imported using symbol creation will convert the text to surfaces that will show in 3D views.

 

What I like about this method is that you have a lot of control over the surface of the Terrain and the Draft angle of the sloping portions of the stepped slices.  May not be a big deal to some, but I think it makes a difference.  With a little effort you can also produce trenches for sitework as well.

 

Where this really gets interesting is when the model is exported to Octane Render and either displayed in Clay mode, or if you separate the OBJ file from the material file and then you can use the Live Database to set material definitions on the fly as shown in your last image.  One other thing that this method provides is extremely powerful lighting options as well.   Very soon to have real time path tracing holographic capabilites as well.

 

Cool as that is, don't overlook what others are trying to tell you regarding what you can lose regarding Chief's Library objects if you are not very careful.

[johnny]

Thanks Rod.  I'll try this too, but what I was really after is a way that a 3D presentation to a client can easily communicate the amount of grade changes around a building.

[RodCole]

johnny

 

I only showed one slice, which BTW can be done using either by Plane or by Line.  You can slice at the exact locations of the topo lines in chief and extrude each profile, with custom draft angles, in order to create a complete stepped topo model.  If you want to go all out you can place a UCS or Workplane and place text in the modeling environment that will be converted to surfaces when you import the model into Chief as a Symbol.

 

I like doing this process even if I am not intending on using Chief for the final presentation.  It is just a slick way to get either text or dimensions into a rendered image.  Sometimes workarounds can be very cool indeed.  Nice one Chief !  The funny thing is that it requires that you use another app to create the text or dimensions placed in 3D space for this process to work.  Generally this type of object is not visible in a rendering environment unless it specifically can deal with non-renderables.

 

For the most part I do not use Chief for the presentation side for Clay modeling work.  I prefer to keep the terrian as useful as possible in Chief.  For what ever it is worth, getting to where you can get Chief's Terrain fairly close in the first place is a very good skill set to have all the way around.

[mattyt12]

A fairly simple and effective way is to convert the site with the terrain contour lines layer turned on to a CAD detail, copy back in place back ontop of the terrain, convert polyline to a sidewalk centreline, set the width to 50mm or 2", apply a contrasting material

[BryceEngstrom]

 

So you know, its not a particular request - stepped terrain models with non-stepped roads and pathways are the norm.  Perhaps you didn't know that, but its probably the most common type terrain model among architects.

 

Here are a couple examples.

 

LOL.  Yeah, never saw a one of these in architecture school.   ;-)        Just don't see the need for Chief to do this.

[johnny]

LOL.  Yeah, never saw a one of these in architecture school.   ;-)        Just don't see the need for Chief to do this.

 

Well you mentioned the request as idiosyncratic, so my response was to explain this isn't something particular to my needs only, but rather very common.

[johnny]

A fairly simple and effective way is to convert the site with the terrain contour lines layer turned on to a CAD detail, copy back in place back ontop of the terrain, convert polyline to a sidewalk centreline, set the width to 50mm or 2", apply a contrasting material

 

This looks very nice - but I am having a hard time understanding the process.  I'll play with this and try it.

[johnny]

johnny

 

I only showed one slice, which BTW can be done using either by Plane or by Line.  You can slice at the exact locations of the topo lines in chief and extrude each profile, with custom draft angles, in order to create a complete stepped topo model.  If you want to go all out you can place a UCS or Workplane and place text in the modeling environment that will be converted to surfaces when you import the model into Chief as a Symbol.

 

I like doing this process even if I am not intending on using Chief for the final presentation.  It is just a slick way to get either text or dimensions into a rendered image.  Sometimes workarounds can be very cool indeed.  Nice one Chief !  The funny thing is that it requires that you use another app to create the text or dimensions placed in 3D space for this process to work.  Generally this type of object is not visible in a rendering environment unless it specifically can deal with non-renderables.

 

For the most part I do not use Chief for the presentation side for Clay modeling work.  I prefer to keep the terrian as useful as possible in Chief.  For what ever it is worth, getting to where you can get Chief's Terrain fairly close in the first place is a very good skill set to have all the way around.

 

Do you have an example image by chance?  Im following you here but trying to understand "extrude" a profile.

[RodCole]

I have a project that I am about to start that I will be doing this on.  Just had my desktop hard drive crash.  In the process of getting things installed now.  If I happen to find something I will post it, but those were mostly promo types of things and not generally backed up like my projects were.  Bummer, but I am excited about some of the ideas I have for this and it should come together in about a week to two weeks.  My laptop does not have the right hardware for the presentation side of things.

 

The basics are to export the terrain as a 3DS file and set up your UCS or Workplane at the elevation you want to make the slice.  There are a few options.  The easiest ones are to set the Workplane parallel to World and Offset as needed and then slice by Workplane.  The other way is to Set the Workplane similar to a cross section and then Slice by line.  I usually use the Workplane method.  Once you have sliced the terrain, then extrude the profile that was created and, depending on the software you are using, there is an option to extrude the profile by setting the draft angle of the extrusion.

 

I am working on my laptop for now and getting the other one set up as time allows.  The simple example I showed is it.  You just make more slices and turn off the terrain so that you are left with only the stepped slash extruded profiles.  You can import this into CA as a symbol, but I generally don't since Octane is much better for this type of presentation.  

 

The slice process will create a profile along the slice and it is this profile that you then extrude.

[mattyt12]

This looks very nice - but I am having a hard time understanding the process.  I'll play with this and try it.

Sorry johnny, step by step as follows;

1. turn off all layers in plan except primary and secondary contours;

2. Under the CAD tab, select CAD detail from view;

3. select all the lines, go back to plan, right click>paste>paste hold position

4. while still selected click convert polyline>sidewalk (centre line)

5. change path width, height & materials as desired

 

At step two you could also close the polylines, copy back into plan, convert to slabs and assign the correct heights. This is quite time consuming however.

 

render test4.bmp

[BryceEngstrom]

Well you mentioned the request as idiosyncratic, so my response was to explain this isn't something particular to my needs only, but rather very common.

 

I would say this used to be common before 3D virtual modeling.  Pencils and hand lettering used to be the norm too, which is when we used to make stepped models out of cardboard.

 

I think it's all very creative and ingenious to jump through all these hoops to use new technology to emulate old technology I just have a hard time understanding why Chief would want or need to do this.  It seems like a very small number of users would ever want or need this feature, hence idiosyncratic.

[Alaskan_Son]

I would say this used to be common before 3D virtual modeling.  Pencils and hand lettering used to be the norm too, which is when we used to make stepped models out of cardboard.

 

I think it's all very creative and ingenious to jump through all these hoops to use new technology to emulate old technology I just have a hard time understanding why Chief would want or need to do this.  It seems like a very small number of users would ever want or need this feature, hence idiosyncratic.

I have to agree. The goal as I see it is to become more accurate not less.

[yusuf-333]

Actually, I never did such things before in chief. My take on the issue using flat regions cut/fill in the terrain, so does that help? I don't know, and I didn't care about dims. just a taste plan, if it helps.

[RodCole]

My personal take on this is that it is actually a bit out dated for the reasons mentioned above. that being said, a clay model presentation with a few added touches does provide a level of detail due to the lack of color that can actually clarify the design intent by removing the clutter "color".

Besides all that, I have always loved poster board models, and I still do. It is just that now they can be live, and show details that were never possible before. Mixing textures and clay surfaces is what really interests me these days. Just enough to make the model pop is what I am after. Gotta love it.