Existing, Demolition, and New Construction Phases

[scottkendall]

5 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

Chief does have phasing, we just call it Reference Display and it functions a little differently but does pretty much the same thing.

I guess I do no see it that way

 

5 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

If I was an avid Revit user, and know what I know today about Chief, I would just purchase Chief also. While there are a few systems like Chief out there, non of them hold a candle light to its automation and power. Why not own both and up your services? 

A lot of that automation comes at a cost of control, that said Natively no there is not a system out there! However, since the  Revit API is open all the automation chief has someone has wrote a plug in for except maybe cabinets... I actually design all my cabinets in Fusion 360 with tool tracing that way I can send them directly to the manufacture and they can pop them into the CNC machine. I can also export them and import them into Revit to use in the construction document sets.   

 

5 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

I started out with AutoCAD while it was still a DOS software. I learned the LISP language and others to make dialog boxes, etc. and made systems that sold all over the world. Even got a Highly Recommended from the Catalyst magazine who did a review. As time went on Autodesk continued to develop new and more amazing software, mainly aiming at commercial and industrial, leaving the little guy in the dust. Chief came along about the same time, but it looked cumbersome and every time I tested it, I could not get it to do what I wanted. So I walked away from it over and over and stayed with AutoCAD.

I have not used Autocad except for deleting stuff out of surveys for my importing to Revit in about 20 year but I remember all the commands/hotkeys with little effort.   When I started using Revit I could make it do just about everything I wanted right away like first 48/hrs of use I had completely modeled a complex hillside and built the house and retaining walls never using a 3D modeling software before. As I mentioned in a previous post I am a software/hardware guy before an Architect so software just makes sense to me.   

 

5 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

About 5 years ago I purchased Chief, and because my mind was so wrapped around AutoCAD and how it functioned, I almost gave up, but kept learning, and the good people here would kick my butt time and time again as I complained. Over the years I was still using AutoCAD because I had projects running, or clients wanted to purchase a plan with changes. But I was slowly forgetting the commands and some of my programs were failing because of Window updates, and I was tired of maintaining them. Today I use Chief and love it. Yes of course there are issues and things we all want to see get fine tuned or added. But Chief is designing for the little guy, or the common Architect, Designer and/or Builder. I'm not just another spec in a monster company who doesn't care about me nor know who I am. 

I care most about flexibility and the desire to do what ever I need.  

Example: Someone asked about a driveway apron on this forum I went into Revit and 3D solid Modeled it in about 45 seconds exported it to various file types and posed it for them.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

So. When I say just pick something, or get to work, I know I am talking to a hard working and very skilled person. I don't think you need anyone of us to tell you what you need to do next. But if you're asking, I would suggest you pick up a copy of Chief and become an avid user. Again, it sounds like you are running into job situations that are using Chief.

Honestly had you replied No chief does not have phasing and we mostly just import a secondary model or the plan as a CAD detail  I would have said ok thanks. I keep carrying on in hopes that one day Chief programers will see the value of true phasing and include it in the software.   I promise you that if you used it that you would think the same thing I did when it first appeared in Revit... That is oh my this is the tool I never knew I needed.... Kind of like push to start!  I used to do exactly what you do in Chief when Revit did not have phasing but it always lead to problems and since as I mentioned I started using Revit only 2 years after I started doing architecture I did not learn the skill of checking views and cross referring everything to make sure it matched... I like to call it first world problems lol 

[Alaskan_Son]

 

On 3/24/2025 at 8:25 AM, scottkendall said:

I have seen their plans and they are sub par IMO.   They do not take the jobs that I am concerned with because they do not have a "ME" to handle the jobs. They do have a system in place but as far as I can tell it has a lot of room for errors.  They do not take on the kind of jobs where the site tools would be important because they do not have the ability to design them. I would be enabling them to take on those kind of jobs because of my extensive experience with that type of work.  

 

My job would not be to just get jobs done, but to make the process better more streamlined with reduced errors.   IF your job is to carry a company into the future and the software you are using is lacking the abilities that the industry standard has and you are not brining the company up to speed then you are not doing your job.    I am a computer hardware/software before I was an architect I was a network engineer in an IT department and just happened to land in Architecture.  I have Alpha, Beta, Tested 100's of softwares, every time a new BIM software comes out be it on windows or Mac or universal I test it.  Archicad is about the closest to Revit there is when it comes to the Robustness of the software... Chief is the closest in the way Revit feels, maybe that is because it is a very process based work flow.   AI tools are coming soon the drafter is not really going to be needed any more, we are just going to design a pretty building give it, it's soul and an AI is going to take over and generate the construction documents.

 

Maybe even push it through plan check!   Is Chief Ready for that future is the question you must be asking yourself... Unless you are old and you do not expect to be apart of that future! 

 

It sounds like you've made your mind up already.  No, Chief does not have phasing but we do have other ways of communicating the same information.  And no, Chief's terrain tools haven't really changed. 

[tundra_dweller]

By golly, I think this horse is dead!

[Archnot-Boltz]

20 hours ago, scottkendall said:

I guess I do no see it that way

 

A lot of that automation (Chiefs Automation Continues to Paint the user into a corner in complex instances) and yes, I'm bashing because many things could have been fixed  and added in the last 10 years of Upgrades comes at a cost of control, that said Natively no there is not a system out there! However, since the  Revit API is open all the automation chief has someone has wrote a plug in for except maybe cabinets... I actually design all my cabinets in Fusion 360 with tool tracing that way I can send them directly to the manufacture and they can pop them into the CNC machine. I can also export them and import them into Revit to use in the construction document sets.   

 

I have not used Autocad except for deleting stuff out of surveys for my importing to Revit in about 20 year but I remember all the commands/hotkeys with little effort.   When I started using Revit I could make it do just about everything I wanted right away like first 48/hrs of use I had completely modeled a complex hillside and built the house and retaining walls never using a 3D modeling software before. As I mentioned in a previous post I am a software/hardware guy before an Architect so software just makes sense to me.   

 

I care most about flexibility and the desire to do what ever I need.  

Example: Someone asked about a driveway apron on this forum I went into Revit and 3D solid Modeled it in about 45 seconds exported it to various file types and posed it for them.

Chief's terrain got better by adding polyline (polygon) sidewalks, roads and driveways. They still only dimension from the outside of the curb with no option to dimension curb face to curb face. You still get Stalagmites and abrubt valleys if you don't properly finesse and that aspect is still cryptic but you do get a thousand kitchen cabinet manufacturers for your library!!

 

Honestly had you replied No chief does not have phasing and we mostly just import a secondary model or the plan as a CAD detail  I would have said ok thanks. I keep carrying on in hopes that one day Chief programers will see the value of true phasing and include it in the software.   I promise you that if you used it that you would think the same thing I did when it first appeared in Revit... That is oh my this is the tool I never knew I needed.... Kind of like push to start!  I used to do exactly what you do in Chief when Revit did not have phasing but it always lead to problems and since as I mentioned I started using Revit only 2 years after I started doing architecture I did not learn the skill of checking views and cross referring everything to make sure it matched... I like to call it first world problems lol Softplan Does Phasing and also allows you to have multiple design options of the same bathroom in the same plan Softplan doesn't allow you to draw walls and things as fast and as intuitively as Chief but my co-worker switched two years ago and he gets automatically placed joist hangers, and other like items that could easily be implemented by Chief with an On/off toggle. By staying with Revit, you will have a directl line to doing business with architects and engineers regarding file sharing and editing mark ups. 

Have a nice day, also, seems like all the CAD programs are going to the monthly subscription model and eliminating ownership and upgrades. Fortunately, Chief allows us Legacy users to continue Legacying!!-BB

Edited 18 hours ago by Archnot-Boltz
wanted to change notifications so that I get emailed when the power users bash my comments! Couldn't find the setting.

[Archnot-Boltz]

requested to follow topic because I have been known to beat a metaphorical dead horse or two!

[scottkendall]

3 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

It sounds like you've made your mind up already.  No, Chief does not have phasing but we do have other ways of communicating the same information.  And no, Chief's terrain tools haven't really changed. 

Yea unfortunately Phasing is a non starter for me and as I mentioned it was the tool I never knew I needed it till I had it... It was never about communicating the same information it is about ease of creating the information and modifying it all by modifying it once.  Revit did not always have Phasing and at some point I did exactly the same thing you all are doing in Chief but it was long ago. 

 

55 minutes ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Have a nice day, also, seems like all the CAD programs are going to the monthly subscription model and eliminating ownership and upgrades. Fortunately, Chief allows us Legacy users to continue Legacying!!-BB

Yes it has been a long time coming some people like Autodesk adopted it earlier.  When I first got into architecture 20+ years ago Autodesk was already trying to push the subscription model but they had a perpetual LIC also. I have perpetual lic for Versions 8, 2010-2016 and the softwares still work I stayed on 2016 until 2020 and now I am locked into paying a subscription.  But as I understand it you all pay a subscription to keep getting updates even when you are Legacying! That said Licensing is an entirely different topic.   

 

1 hour ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Softplan Does Phasing and also allows you to have multiple design options of the same bathroom in the same plan Softplan doesn't allow you to draw walls and things as fast and as intuitively as Chief but my co-worker switched two years ago and he gets automatically placed joist hangers, and other like items that could easily be implemented by Chief with an On/off toggle. 

Yea I looked softplan but the one thing about Chief that made it so appealing was it actually ran natively on a Mac and was much cheaper.   Softplan is almost as expensive as Revit and still would require me to run a windows machine or a VM.  Not sure what you mean by it does not allow you to draws walls and things as fast or as intuitively as chief because I did not find chief any faster or more intuitive when it comes to baseline features like walls windows and doors then any other software. Where chief shines IMO is the automation but that is also as you said (Chiefs Automation Continues to Paint the user into a corner in complex instances)   The only corner I ever felt panted into with Revit is that If I want something I have to make/model it.  But I guess when  you are not trying to pump out 100+ projects a year you have time to make/model the little things. 

 

1 hour ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

By staying with Revit, you will have a directl line to doing business with architects and engineers regarding file sharing and editing mark ups. 

 

I have found that because I do high end residential I do not have a lot of dealings with sharing my files with Engineers or interior designers.  The engineerings are still mostly using AutoCAD and the interior designers have an affinity for sketchup... 

 

I do have a question though about the framing automation and that is what if you do not like the way the way the automation framed it? Maybe you want a few drop beams in the middle of a room for interior aesthetic and that would change the direction of your framing. 

 

[scottkendall]

2 hours ago, tundra_dweller said:

By golly, I think this horse is dead!

Dead horse is a MTB trail just outside Nevada and if you ride it you will feel like a dead horse when you are done! 

[Archnot-Boltz]

10 minutes ago, scottkendall said:

Yea unfortunately Phasing is a non starter for me and as I mentioned it was the tool I never knew I needed it till I had it... It was never about communicating the same information it is about ease of creating the information and modifying it all by modifying it once.  Revit did not always have Phasing and at some point I did exactly the same thing you all are doing in Chief but it was long ago. 

 

Yes it has been a long time coming some people like Autodesk adopted it earlier.  When I first got into architecture 20+ years ago Autodesk was already trying to push the subscription model but they had a perpetual LIC also. I have perpetual lic for Versions 8, 2010-2016 and the softwares still work I stayed on 2016 until 2020 and now I am locked into paying a subscription.  But as I understand it you all pay a subscription to keep getting updates even when you are Legacying! That said Licensing is an entirely different topic.   

 

Yea I looked softplan but the one thing about Chief that made it so appealing was it actually ran natively on a Mac and was much cheaper.   Softplan is almost as expensive as Revit and still would require me to run a windows machine or a VM.  Not sure what you mean by it does not allow you to draws walls and things as fast or as intuitively as chief because I did not find chief any faster or more intuitive when it comes to baseline features like walls windows and doors then any other software. Where chief shines IMO is the automation but that is also as you said (Chiefs Automation Continues to Paint the user into a corner in complex instances)   The only corner I ever felt panted into with Revit is that If I want something I have to make/model it.  But I guess when  you are not trying to pump out 100+ projects a year you have time to make/model the little things. 

 

 

I have found that because I do high end residential I do not have a lot of dealings with sharing my files with Engineers or interior designers.  The engineerings are still mostly using AutoCAD and the interior designers have an affinity for sketchup... 

 

I do have a question though about the framing automation and that is what if you do not like the way the way the automation framed it? Maybe you want a few drop beams in the middle of a room for interior aesthetic and that would change the direction of your framing. 

 

Because of the dumb way Chief does porch railings that control the ceiling  and interfere with the foundation and the ceilings, I'll demarcate my porch roof drawing with the beam framing tool. I always revise and manually edit  the auto framing manually . You have to tread carefully if you want to rebuild your framing to account for a floor or roof height change but sometimes I'm so deep into a drawing reframing of a floor or celing has to be done on a piece by piece basis thus many times defeating the time saved by autoframing.  I usually leave autoframing on until the project gets pretty much set in stone but have many times gotten ahead of myself and done too much manual too soon. There are some setting to kind of lock it in but this is an area Chief should be focusing on that would make it a much better program. Just like implementing Ortho Locks, which they refuse to do.-BB

[Alaskan_Son]

1 hour ago, scottkendall said:

Yea unfortunately Phasing is a non starter for me and as I mentioned it was the tool I never knew I needed it till I had it... It was never about communicating the same information it is about ease of creating the information and modifying it all by modifying it once.  Revit did not always have Phasing and at some point I did exactly the same thing you all are doing in Chief but it was long ago.

 

You sound like an Autodesk salesman!

 

This issue seems highly subjective to me.  I think its entirely possible...nay probable...that a persons preferred workflow, mental proclivities, and preferred/required output dictate what they need in this regard.  And its clear (at least to me) that you can't/don't fully appreciate that your phasing functionality objectively comes at a cost.  In Chief that cost would be much of its automation and ease of use.  If you had a deeper understanding of how Chief worked, you would realize that the introduction of phasing would absolutely slow down and even completely break several key aspects of the software--things that make Chief what it is. 

 

Good luck my man, but I if not having phasing is a "non starter", I think you're wasting everyone's time here  ...unless of course your goal is indeed to move people over to Revit. 

[scottkendall]

32 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

You sound like an Autodesk salesman!

 

This issue seems highly subjective to me.  I think its entirely possible...nay probable...that a persons preferred workflow, mental proclivities, and preferred/required output dictate what they need in this regard.  And its clear (at least to me) that you can't/don't fully appreciate that your phasing functionality objectively comes at a cost.  In Chief that cost would be much of its automation and ease of use.  If you had a deeper understanding of how Chief worked, you would realize that the introduction of phasing would absolutely slow down and even completely break several key aspects of the software--things that make Chief what it is. 

 

Good luck my man, but I if not having phasing is a "non starter", I think you're wasting everyone's time here if ...unless of course your goal is indeed to move people over to Revit. 

 

I have been told in the past I should be a salesman for a lot of things... I did not particularly like sales.  

 

You keep touting this ease of use but in fact when it comes to anything that is remotely complex chief falls flat and the automations break.  By your own admission.   

 

Because I think you do not fully understand phasing you think it will make stuff harder and that is fine.   If the programmers at chief were to find a way to implement it would no doubt make things better.  I think you been walking down a narrow hallway so long you cannot see the vast world around you.   

 

Just because I have not spent the last 20 years using chief does not mean I do not have a rather good understanding of it. For some people software just make sense for other people it takes a lifetime... For me if I used one 3D software I have used them all I can step from program to program with very short learning curve. Four years ago when I tried Chief for the first time I completed all the online training in a day and completed the advanced model.   Nothing really Deep about chief to understand. 

 

My goal was to collect information; generate discussion; and maybe Chief programers would see this and find a way to implement some kind of phasing that was paramedic in nature that would help with work flow and accuracy.   

 

Stop making so many assumptions if you think I am wasting your time then move on... 

 

 

[scottkendall]

1 hour ago, Archnot-Boltz said:

Because of the dumb way Chief does porch railings that control the ceiling  and interfere with the foundation and the ceilings, I'll demarcate my porch roof drawing with the beam framing tool. I always revise and manually edit  the auto framing manually . You have to tread carefully if you want to rebuild your framing to account for a floor or roof height change but sometimes I'm so deep into a drawing reframing of a floor or celing has to be done on a piece by piece basis thus many times defeating the time saved by autoframing.  I usually leave autoframing on until the project gets pretty much set in stone but have many times gotten ahead of myself and done too much manual too soon. There are some setting to kind of lock it in but this is an area Chief should be focusing on that would make it a much better program. Just like implementing Ortho Locks, which they refuse to do.-BB

 

I am guessing the railing issue is the way it is do to the way floors and ceilings are generated room by room rather then created.   

 

Yea I understand the getting ahead of yourself with certain things and having to go back to redo things because of that. Because I am kind of a cheap bastard I manually do all the framing after I get the structural engineering but it is really just a mater of drawing some boxes where the joists/rafters are, and lines where the beams are normally only takes about 15 mins to manually draw the framing.   

 

[Steve_Nyhof]

45 minutes ago, scottkendall said:

You keep touting this ease of use but in fact when it comes to anything that is remotely complex chief falls flat and the automations break.  By your own admission

 

I would say this works in reverse as well. We (speaking for myself and I am sure others) don't know Revit or how the Phasing works, but I am equally convinced, as we do not know Revit or Phasing, you do not know the power of Chief's automation or the tools beyond the automation. Chief can in most cases automate most of a structure very quickly, and where it ends there are tools like Revit and any CAD software to do what ever our hearts desire.

 

I think a better way to end this thread is to say, "I do not understand the complexity and automation of Chief like I understand the manual creative power and tools of Revit." vs taking a stand with a number of users in this thread that can run circles around most CAD uses of any brand. You asked if Chief has phasing. We said and showed you what we have. Nope, it's not "phasing". OMG, why is it not called phasing!! Chief does not have "phasing". Something you weren't even looking for in software now becomes the criteria of a worthy CAD software? And by all things wholly, make sure it is called phasing! (Not sure if I covered that). Why not just come clean and tell us that you are an amazing software, programming, salesman, architectural, engineering genius that likes to move from forum to forum and suck the life out of it's users. 

 

I'm just having fun. Shoot at my age this is better than TV any day 

[Steve_Nyhof]

And now I am going to call on the Power of Greyskull, ah, er, I mean the Power of @Renerabbitt - where the heck are you? We have found what could be your greatest nemesis and you are not here to defend us! 

 

 

[scottkendall]

10 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

 

I would say this works in reverse as well. We (speaking for myself and I am sure others) don't know Revit or how the Phasing works, but I am equally convinced, as we do not know Revit or Phasing, you do not know the power of Chief's automation or the tools beyond the automation. Chief can in most cases automate most of a structure very quickly, and where it ends there are tools like Revit and any CAD software to do what ever our hearts desire.

I am sorry that in three projects in Chief and less then 6 months of evaluations I found the the "power of chief automation" its biggest limiting factor and biggest down fall.

 

10 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

 

I think a better way to end this thread is to say, "I do not understand the complexity and automation of Chief like I understand the manual creative power and tools of Revit." vs taking a stand with a number of users in this thread that can run circles around most CAD uses of any brand. You asked if Chief has phasing. We said and showed you what we have. Nope, it's not "phasing". OMG, why is it not called phasing. Chief does not have "phasing". Something you weren't even looking for in software now becomes the criteria of a worthy CAD software? And by all things wholly, make sure it is called phasing! (Not sure if I covered that). Why not just come clean and tell us that you are an amazing software, programming, salesman, architectural, engineering genius that likes to move from forum to forum and suck the life out of it's users. 

If you say so if your metric is 100 basic houses a year you can keep that I enjoy my luxury homes where I only have to do 25 a year and designing every little detail.  But if I only did basic houses I could easily do 100 homes a year.  PS it has nothing to do with the name it has to do with the function and your double model does not even come close like I said repeatedly I used to in Revit do exactly the same thing you are doing in Chief did not even know what phasing was then they added it.... The main difference between me and you Is I have chief experience and you have nothing but chief experience. 

 

10 minutes ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

 

I'm just having fun. Shoot at my age this is better than TV any day 

 

This is your biggest issue your old and angry. 

[JKEdmo]

13 minutes ago, scottkendall said:

If you say so if your metric is 100 basic houses a year you can keep that I enjoy my luxury homes where I only have to do 25 a year and designing every little detail.  But if I only did basic houses I could easily do 100 homes a year.

 

Hey, you're pretty awesome!  But, you've made your argument to the forum, so how about giving it a rest?  I don't think you are winning many converts with your boasting and snark.

 

 

[scottkendall]

4 minutes ago, JKEdmo said:

 

Hey, you're pretty awesome!  But, you've made your argument to the forum, so how about giving it a rest?  I don't think you are winning many converts with your boasting and snark.

 

 

Hey, you’re pretty awesome too.,. That said I wasn’t trying to convert anybody. Honestly, the only way anybody would ever be converted is if chief implemented the feature and none of it was meant to be snarky except maybe the last post

[Steve_Nyhof]

2 hours ago, scottkendall said:

This is your biggest issue your old and angry. 

 

The truth is I have had fun with you, but still put you on a pedestal. I can tell there is a great depth of a young man sharing his experience with us. Anyone who knows me knows angry is not in my makeup. One day you too will look back on things like this and realize how much of an ego can cloud ones mind. There are many people here who have bragging rights but know what having to prove yourself sounds like, so we let that go for the most part.

 

You would also have to know the Chief users to know we are all kind of like a family here. Many of us came forward excited to share our knowledge of Chief with you, but you did not recognize the family dynamic. If we were all standing face to face you would know and see it in our demeanor. However, from what I have read in your questions and comments felt more like stepping on our toes. 

 

You are right, I have no plans to learn Revit. I have learned a lot in my life and proud of what I have accomplished. I honestly think people like yourself are incredible to have spent the time to learn a huge software like Revit. And I am not being funny. Many people in this forum have come from amazing backgrounds. Just keep that in mind as you interact with them. 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

5 hours ago, scottkendall said:

You keep touting this ease of use but in fact when it comes to anything that is remotely complex chief falls flat and the automations break.  By your own admission.   

 

I think you may be lumping me in with the rest of the group.  I've personally said very little about any of this in my 3 posts and although I'm fully aware of Chief's many limitations, I certainly didn't say anything about Chief falling flat or breaking with complexity.  What i actually said is that I thought the introduction of phasing was likely to break some of the functionality. 

 

5 hours ago, scottkendall said:

Because I think you do not fully understand phasing you think it will make stuff harder and that is fine.   If the programmers at chief were to find a way to implement it would no doubt make things better.  I think you been walking down a narrow hallway so long you cannot see the vast world around you.   

 

Just because I have not spent the last 20 years using chief does not mean I do not have a rather good understanding of it. For some people software just make sense for other people it takes a lifetime... For me if I used one 3D software I have used them all I can step from program to program with very short learning curve. Four years ago when I tried Chief for the first time I completed all the online training in a day and completed the advanced model.   Nothing really Deep about chief to understand. 

 

My goal was to collect information; generate discussion; and maybe Chief programers would see this and find a way to implement some kind of phasing that was paramedic in nature that would help with work flow and accuracy.   

 

Stop making so many assumptions if you think I am wasting your time then move on... 

 

As for the "assumptions" you speak of, I'm not really sure what you're referring to but it is clear that you have assumed a lot about most of us.  Your assumptions may may be correct as assumptions commonly are, but they may also be wrong.  I for one actually understand phasing fairly well and to be fair, I think it's a really cool feature that would be nice to have.  The concept in one form or another has actually been brought up quite a few times over the years here on the forum, but I think it creates too many problems with Chief's paradigm.  This is true on many levels having to do with the way Chief automates things, but in particular this is true of Chief's room based paradigm.  Chief uses the Room to define almost everything about the model including but not limited to:  f

• Floor structure
• Floor finish
• Ceiling structure
• Ceiling finish
• Moldings
• Wall coverings
• How objects are positioned
• How various tools behave
• How doors and windows behave
• How walls behave
• Wall finish
• Automatic roof generation
• Framing generation
• Automatic dimension generation
• ....and much more

This paradigm although a hindrance in many ways is also the reason why I can literally complete a complete set of construction documents for a 4 wall building in the time it's taken me to get this far in this post. 

 

This room paradigm though means that multiple rooms cannot exist in the same model space without also breaking or greatly complicating some of thew aforementioned behaviors.  To make matters worse, we define those rooms with walls, so that means walls become part of that problem and so forth.

Side Note:  I know we're not exactly comparing apples and apples, but ironically Revit has issues with Rooms and Phasing as well.

 

Anyway, I do think its possible Chief could maybe implement a time stamped reference point (like a Saved Action History) in the drawing to represent any given phase, but due to the underlying dependence of various objects, this would also make it virtually impossible to go back and make a correction or change to an earlier phase without also making that exact same change to every other affected phase therefore constantly having to manually sync our timelines.  This is not to mention how complex and expensive it would be to computationally maintain automation for several different timelines all at once.  Chief has a hard enough time handling one complex model as it is with all of its various automation. 

 

So, its a balancing act.  Yes, I have multiple models, and yes if I make any changes or corrections I may potentially have to do the same to multiple models, but its really not a lot of extra work and allows Chief to automate a lot more than what Revit is able to automate.

 

Also, what hasn't been mentioned is that it's not all downsides either.  Using the X-Ref type approach I'm talking about (and that I know you're familiar with) allows for using a single As-Built or Phase 1 plan with multiple Proposed or Phase 2 options (i.e. parallel timelines) which can be super useful.

 

Again, I wish you the best.

[JuanR2]

On 3/13/2025 at 12:15 AM, scottkendall said:

Hello Everyone,

 

A few years ago I was interviewing for a job and the company uses Chief Architect, So I spent a weekend using all the online instructional videos and basically crash coursed myself.  After the weekend I looked into replacing Revit and using Chief due to it running natively on the MacOS.  I ended up staying with Revit because of one nuance that I just could not live without and that was project phasing. If you do not use Revit you might ask what Project Phasing is?   Project Phasing is where you have the ability to make walls, windows, doors, roofs, etc. fall into categorizes.  So if you demo a part of a wall to make a hallway on the existing plan it will show the wall like normal, on the demo plan it will show it as being demolished and on the proposed it just simply will be open.   By the same token if you have a door and you demo it, it will show the door on the existing, it will show it to be demolished on the demo, and on the proposed the door will be gone and it will automatically fill the space where the door is.   This helps to maintain accuracy across all drawings.   That all said I am once again looking for a new job and the company I am interviewing with uses Chief and they are predominantly a company that does remodels.  Has Chief implemented some kind of tools for this kind of work flow or is the demo plan still some kind of line drawing imported as like a CAD detail?  I have downloaded a trial to refresh myself on the software and will likely watch some kind of training videos. 

 

Also, have there been any advances made on the site tools in the past 3 years as I remember them being a little more cumbersome to use.  Autodesk after 17 years has finally revamped their site tools and I have to say it was a huge step I the right direction.   

 

Please do not think that this is a post to slam Chief Architect I think it is a great piece of software and it has some really cool features that are really cumbersome to do in Revit like Base and Crown Moldings, or Cabinetry that you have to model from scratch.  Even the realistic rendering view mode on Chief runs more smoothly.   There are trade offs with every software... 

 

 

 

[JuanR2]

On 3/13/2025 at 12:15 AM, scottkendall said:

Hello Everyone,

 

A few years ago I was interviewing for a job and the company uses Chief Architect, So I spent a weekend using all the online instructional videos and basically crash coursed myself.  After the weekend I looked into replacing Revit and using Chief due to it running natively on the MacOS.  I ended up staying with Revit because of one nuance that I just could not live without and that was project phasing. If you do not use Revit you might ask what Project Phasing is?   Project Phasing is where you have the ability to make walls, windows, doors, roofs, etc. fall into categorizes.  So if you demo a part of a wall to make a hallway on the existing plan it will show the wall like normal, on the demo plan it will show it as being demolished and on the proposed it just simply will be open.   By the same token if you have a door and you demo it, it will show the door on the existing, it will show it to be demolished on the demo, and on the proposed the door will be gone and it will automatically fill the space where the door is.   This helps to maintain accuracy across all drawings.   That all said I am once again looking for a new job and the company I am interviewing with uses Chief and they are predominantly a company that does remodels.  Has Chief implemented some kind of tools for this kind of work flow or is the demo plan still some kind of line drawing imported as like a CAD detail?  I have downloaded a trial to refresh myself on the software and will likely watch some kind of training videos. 

 

Also, have there been any advances made on the site tools in the past 3 years as I remember them being a little more cumbersome to use.  Autodesk after 17 years has finally revamped their site tools and I have to say it was a huge step I the right direction.   

 

Please do not think that this is a post to slam Chief Architect I think it is a great piece of software and it has some really cool features that are really cumbersome to do in Revit like Base and Crown Moldings, or Cabinetry that you have to model from scratch.  Even the realistic rendering view mode on Chief runs more smoothly.   There are trade offs with every software... 

 

 

 

[JuanR2]

Every time I have a problem using Chief, I know there's a workaround that can either fix it or revise my project approach because of the software limitations. After reading all the comments concerning AB, Demo, Remodeling and so on I've thought about a "solution" for the project I'm currently working on. Instead of referencing external files, some of the AB Walls and Roofs I will change to my "new construction" layers. My project has situations where AB roofs but into New Walls, then the New Walls can be built differently below and above the AB Roof. My New wall is parallel to the AB wall -now a double "new wall" instead of being strict regarding labeling- so the 3D Model can produce expected results when New and AB elements are right next to each other. I expect to have a "complete" working model instead of referenced files.

 

In the attached pictures you can see 2 AB Casitas in Bonita CA, Spanish Revival style built almost a hundred years ago. I drew a line indicating where the AB Roof (now labeled new) buts against the new walls, and since I'm keeping the existing AB walls, I will change those to new double walls. It has been a nightmare being strict on the labeling regarding AB and New.

 

PS. I will come back and find out how to solve my grading problems! LOL

[scottkendall]

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I think you may be lumping me in with the rest of the group.  I've personally said very little about any of this in my 3 posts and although I'm fully aware of Chief's many limitations, I certainly didn't say anything about Chief falling flat or breaking with complexity.  What i actually said is that I thought the introduction of phasing was likely to break some of the functionality. 

 

This might be possible. 

 

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

 

As for the "assumptions" you speak of, I'm not really sure what you're referring to but it is clear that you have assumed a lot about most of us.  Your assumptions may may be correct as assumptions commonly are, but they may also be wrong.  I for one actually understand phasing fairly well and to be fair, I think it's a really cool feature that would be nice to have.  The concept in one form or another has actually been brought up quite a few times over the years here on the forum, but I think it creates too many problems with Chief's paradigm.  This is true on many levels having to do with the way Chief automates things, but in particular this is true of Chief's room based paradigm.  Chief uses the Room to define almost everything about the model including but not limited to:  f

• Floor structure
• Floor finish
• Ceiling structure
• Ceiling finish
• Moldings
• Wall coverings
• How objects are positioned
• How various tools behave
• How doors and windows behave
• How walls behave
• Wall finish
• Automatic roof generation
• Framing generation
• Automatic dimension generation
• ....and much more

This paradigm although a hindrance in many ways is also the reason why I can literally complete a complete set of construction documents for a 4 wall building in the time it's taken me to get this far in this post. 

Yes I understand how chief works I have used it and I could create 4 wall building in Revit in the same time it took you to write this post.  Since most of everyone's construction documents are templated. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

This room paradigm though means that multiple rooms cannot exist in the same model space without also breaking or greatly complicating some of thew aforementioned behaviors.  To make matters worse, we define those rooms with walls, so that means walls become part of that problem and so forth.

That would likely require items to move around phases and rooms would have to be defined by Wall ID's rather then just by the space inside them. But that would be for the coders to figure out.

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

Side Note:  I know we're not exactly comparing apples and apples, but ironically Revit has issues with Rooms and Phasing as well.

The only thing that has anything to do with rooms in Revit is some Labeling that Ironically I have never used! 

 

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Anyway, I do think its possible Chief could maybe implement a time stamp in the drawing to represent any given phase, but due to the underlying dependence of various objects, this would also make it virtually impossible to go back and make a correction or change to an earlier phase without also making that exact same change to every other affected phase therefore constantly having to manually sync our timelines.  This is not to mention how complex and expensive it would be to computationally maintain automation for several different timelines all at once.  Chief has a hard enough time handling one complex model as it is with all of its various automation. 

Sounds like Chiefs Coders have coded themselves into a Box... 

 

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

So, its a balancing act.  Yes, I have multiple models, and yes if I make any changes or corrections I may potentially have to do the same to multiple models, but its really not a lot of extra work and allows Chief to automate a lot more than what Revit is able to automate.

Like I have told you there are lots and lots of plugin that's allow Revit to be automated, Framing, Text, Measurements, Floors and ceilings take so little time that having them decontrolled by a Room or a level is rather pointless to lose the absolute control you have over them but that said there is likely could get a plug in for that as well.  And the same goes for roofs.   Windows and doors in Chief are parametric just like in Revit. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Also, what hasn't been mentioned is that it's not all downsides either.  Using the X-Ref type approach I'm talking about (and that I know you're familiar with) allows for using a single As-Built or Phase 1 plan with multiple Proposed or Phase 2 options (i.e. parallel timelines) which can be super useful.

This is where I would actually have 2 files one for each proposed plan. 

 

[scottkendall]

12 minutes ago, JuanR2 said:

Every time I have a problem using Chief, I know there's a workaround that can either fix it or revise my project approach because of the software limitations. After reading all the comments concerning AB, Demo, Remodeling and so on I've thought about a "solution" for the project I'm currently working on. Instead of referencing external files, some of the AB Walls and Roofs I will change to my "new construction" layers. My project has situations where AB roofs but into New Walls, then the New Walls can be built differently below and above the AB Roof. My New wall is parallel to the AB wall -now a double "new wall" instead of being strict regarding labeling- so the 3D Model can produce expected results when New and AB elements are right next to each other. I expect to have a "complete" working model instead of referenced files.

 

In the attached pictures you can see 2 AB Casitas in Bonita CA, Spanish Revival style built almost a hundred years ago. I drew a line indicating where the AB Roof (now labeled new) buts against the new walls, and since I'm keeping the existing AB walls, I will change those to new double walls. It has been a nightmare being strict on the labeling regarding AB and New.

 

PS. I will come back and find out how to solve my grading problems! LOL

Thanks for your post, I think I tried something like this 4 years ago and just found as you put it a nightmare being strict.  I can tell you that I do not have the discipline to be strict and it would end up back firing on me for sure.   Actually my inability to be disciplined with layering and what not is what causes me to actually need "Phasing" to begin with.  Some of it also might be laziness. 

[scottkendall]

4 hours ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

The truth is I have had fun with you, but still put you on a pedestal. I can tell there is a great depth of a young man sharing his experience with us. Anyone who knows me knows angry is not in my makeup. One day you too will look back on things like this and realize how much of an ego can cloud ones mind. There are many people here who have bragging rights but know what having to prove yourself sounds like, so we let that go for the most part.

 

No Ego here fact is what you guys do is a work around to a problem you have.  As you said you all are a family but you have no clue anything about me so when I telling you something is is informative not saying I am better then you.   Software comes super easy to me does that make me better then you no it just means that I do not have to work as hard at something to become proficient with it. 

 

4 hours ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

You would also have to know the Chief users to know we are all kind of like a family here. Many of us came forward excited to share our knowledge of Chief with you, but you did not recognize the family dynamic. If we were all standing face to face you would know and see it in our demeanor. However, from what I have read in your questions and comments felt more like stepping on our toes. 

 I came here to find out if the software had improved from the same process it had 4 years ago it does not seem like it has and the community seems like they are still as Sensitive about the process in Chief over all this was the reaction I got last time.  That is why my original post said what It said about me not being here to slam Chief.   

 

But if I am being completely honest the process is busted and you all just made a work around, I give you guys credit you have a lot of work arounds for processes that may or may not had any foresight when they were originally created.  Alas most coders are not Architects and so they do not really think about things in terms of how things work in an Architect's mind.    Archicad's claim to fame is that it is software for architects designed by architects so the software thinks like architects.  

 

4 hours ago, Steve_Nyhof said:

You are right, I have no plans to learn Revit.    I have learned a lot in my life and proud of what I have accomplished. I honestly think people like yourself are incredible to have spent the time to learn a huge software like Revit. And I am not being funny. Many people in this forum have come from amazing backgrounds. Just keep that in mind as you interact with them. 

Revit is not as huge as people think it is, Once you learn the basics it is just a bunch of repeating.  Windows and doors more or less the same. Walls well they are there thing, Floors ceilings and roofs are more or less the same. Even the 3D solid modeling tools are the same if you can make an extrusion you can make a sweep, or a blending sweep or a revolve. So there are 5 basic concepts that someone that is tech savvy can easily extrapolate across the entire program. 

 

 

 

 

 

[scottkendall]

To all of you down-voters keep it up I love the passiveeagressiveness of it.... In the words of the greatest portrayal of the Joker  "Why So Sensitive"