Question For The Computer Guys

[HumbleChief]

Currently have the setup below in my sig but seeing how getting new stuff is an irresistible force that I cannot seem to overcome I was thinking of getting a M.2 NVMe drive to speed things up. I currently have about 140 Gb free on my current 1 TB SSD drive and thought that a 2 TB M2 drive (which would replace my current SSD drive) would be the way to go . Then I got to thinking that  A 1TB M2 drive along with the older SSD drive would give me plenty of space if the files were divided between the 2 drives in an appropriate manner. "Appropriate manner" being the key phrase.

 

My question: is it worth it to spring for the 2TB M2 drive and put everything on that single drive? Or is it reasonable to save a few bucks and get the 1 TB M2 drive and split up files with the older SSD drive in the future when 1 TB is simply not enough storage? And/or with proper file management (i.e. DropBox) will the 1 TB be enough storage for the future?

 

Costs are $350ish for the 2 TB and $175ish for a 1 TB. Looking at Western Digital, Seagate, or Samsung. Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated.

[Kbird1]

You could Clone the 1TB Samsung SSD to a 1TB Samsung NVME like the 970 Plus and then use Windows abilities to move User Library Folders to the SSD eg My Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos.  Been doing it for years myself , and since Chief's Data Folder is in My Documents I usually make a dedicated Folders on the faster NVME for the Undo and Temp Folders.

 

You could also in addition add a 2 - 4TB internal HDD fairly Cheaply , going 4TB would also allow for Room to run backups too eg with Macrium Reflect.

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

4 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

You could Clone the 1TB Samsung SSD to a 1TB Samsung NVME like the 970 Plus and then use Windows abilities to move User Library Folders to the SSD eg My Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos.  Been doing it for years myself , and since Chief's Data Folder is in My Documents I usually make a dedicated Folders on the faster NVME for the Undo and Temp Folders.

 

You could also in addition add a 2 - 4TB internal HDD fairly Cheaply , going 4TB would also allow for Room to run backups too eg with Macrium Reflect.

 

M.

Thanks Mick, cloning the existing to the new would be the strategy. Did you mean move User Library Folders to the SSD new NVMe drive eg. My Documents, etc. Is that a typo or the best strategy with the SSD? Not sure the savings ($175) is worth the effort to manage files between 2 drives. BTW Macrium Reflect is simply the best software I've ever used for cloning etc. in case other users need to clone.

[Kbird1]

No , once Cloned everything is on the NVME instead , you then wipe the SSD and start using it for a DATA Drive for things not accessed often or need the speed of the NVME , which is pretty simple by relocating the Windows "Libraries" , which also removes most of the "hassle" you envision as Windows places the Files on D:\ but links to them just like before. Of course if budget is not an issue get the 2TB and still use the SSD as a DATA Drive, for example all things Chief/Biz. or put it in an enclosure to use as a fast USB3 external, I like and use the MediaSonic HDR-SU3 enclosure , all aluminum and up and running 5 mins after you open the box.

 

I also highly recommend Macrium , I also use it to make Full image backups every 3 days to an Internal HDD.  

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

I think I'll get the 1TB M2 and see what that gets me in performance and will always have additional storage for years with the existing/additional SSD. Looking at the Samsung 980 Pro.

[Kbird1]

44 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Looking at the Samsung 980 Pro.

 

Not sure about the Warranties these days, (one reason to go Pro - 5 vs 3yr ) but I have not had any issues with any of my Samsung Evo 970's or 970 Evo+ models (500,1TB and 2TB) over the last 5-6 years.

 

Might be some good deals on a 2TB if you wait for B.Friday?  Amazon had a big sale on them last yr for BF or Xmas , so I grabbed a 2TB.

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

3 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Not sure about the Warranties these days, (one reason to go Pro - 5 vs 3yr ) but I have not had any issues with any of my Samsung Evo 970's or 970 Evo+ models (500,1TB and 2TB) over the last 5-6 years.

 

Might be some good deals on a 2TB if you wait for B.Friday?  Amazon had a big sale on them last yr for BF or Xmas , so I grabbed a 2TB.

 

M.

Thanks Mick, pulled the trigger on the 1TB 980 Pro. Now I get to regret the BF deal I could have gotten lol...

 

I'll update this thread after I install and test.

[HumbleChief]

Spent the WHOLE weekend trying to clone the existing drive to the new and it failed probably 25 times in every conceivable way. Googled every scenario, tried imaging, and have given up with the cloning. Maybe I'll find a way to load windows and move some files but am pretty worn out from the experience. Always had great luck with Macruim Reflect but not this time.

[Kbird1]

4 hours ago, HumbleChief said:

Spent the WHOLE weekend trying to clone the existing drive to the new and it failed probably 25 times in every conceivable way. Googled every scenario, tried imaging, and have given up with the cloning. Maybe I'll find a way to load windows and move some files but am pretty worn out from the experience. Always had great luck with Macruim Reflect but not this time.

 

I'd need more details Larry perhaps PM me.....

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

54 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

I'd need more details Larry perhaps PM me.....

 

M.

REALLY appreciate the help but am over it for now. I'll update as I get some more energy to attempt again. THANK YOU.

[Kbird1]

21 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

REALLY appreciate the help but am over it for now. I'll update as I get some more energy to attempt again. THANK YOU.

 

 No Problem

 

 you could try Samsung's own Software but I've always had more luck with MR 

                https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/consumer/

 

If you are on Win 11 try MR 8 instead of a MR7 version....

 

Mick.

[HumbleChief]

Thanks again Mick but when I posted I spent the WHOLE weekend trying to clone the drives I mean the WHOLE weekend 10 - 12 hours a day, both days, searching every error message, trying Samsung Disk management, cloning, imaging, ran chkdsk c: /r many, many, times. Moved files, deleted files, changed disks but would always fail either immediately or about 15% of thy through. They offered me a support ticket so I filled one out but I've seen pretty much every error code and every possible solution on line and nuthin.

 

I have a feeling that DropBox is the problem and if files are 'on line only' they only leave a very small footprint on the hard disk that maybe can't be copied? But I just used Reflect on my laptop a couple months ago with DropBox and it wet smooth. So I dunno. Maybe I'll get an ISO for Windows and a USB drive and load that on to the new drive and load programs slowly over time. Might be a cleaner route in the long run.

[Kbird1]

Did you try the Clone ( not Image) using the MR Rescue Disk/USB ? ( no windows 10 running then )  make sure you run the FixBoot off the menu

when Clone is done and make sure it picks the 980 Drive not the 850. Then reboot , power off Computer immediately, unplug power cable too 850 SSD,

reboot,  go into Bios and make sure the Boot option is set to Windows Manager and it says 980 Pro ( or similar ) , save and reboot,..... into Windows.....

 

Once up and running again you can close it down and plug the 850 power back in, and reboot , then you can go ahead and Format the 850

and use it as a Data Drive to run MR backups too for example ( much quicker than to a HDD backup).

 

Always nice to do a Clean Install but can be a bit of Work...... but the holidays are coming....

 

Mick.

[HumbleChief]

56 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Did you try the Clone ( not Image) using the MR Rescue Disk/USB ? ( no windows 10 running then )  make sure you run the FixBoot off the menu

when Clone is done and make sure it picks the 980 Drive not the 850. Then reboot , power off Computer immediately, unplug power cable too 850 SSD,

reboot,  go into Bios and make sure the Boot option is set to Windows Manager and it says 980 Pro ( or similar ) , save and reboot,..... into Windows.....

 

Once up and running again you can close it down and plug the 850 power back in, and reboot , then you can go ahead and Format the 850

and use it as a Data Drive to run MR backups too for example ( much quicker than to a HDD backup).

 

Always nice to do a Clean Install but can be a bit of Work...... but the holidays are coming....

 

Mick.

Did not try that Mick and may be a bit over my pay grade. I did create a MR Rescue Disk/USB but not sure how to use it. I'll explore. Am dealing with DropBox currently, trying to get the files out of the cloud, on to the hard disk, maybe disable DropBox and try again. Didn't understand how much DropBox I had in the cloud or on the disk or if even makes any difference. Either way THANK YOU very much for the help!!

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

Did not try that Mick and may be a bit over my pay grade. I did create a MR Rescue Disk/USB but not sure how to use it. I'll explore. Am dealing with DropBox currently, trying to get the files out of the cloud, on to the hard disk, maybe disable DropBox and try again. Didn't understand how much DropBox I had in the cloud or on the disk or if even makes any difference. Either way THANK YOU very much for the help!!

 

I don't use DBox much myself, I tend to use G.Drive being an Android User , so I am unsure how much it might be effecting a MR Clone , though I would of thought exiting dropbox for a few hours while the Clone was done would eliminate issues ...but maybe not.

 

The Rescue USB(?) is just a bootable Disk that will Run MR without having to Run Win10/11 , other than that the interface is identical to what you see in Windows.

 

Doing the Clone from Windows should have asked if you wanted to continue in WinPe which is the same thing as using the Rescue Disk, I don't usually Clone from Windows for this reason and just use the Rescue Disk instead. 

 

You may need to set the Bios to Boot to USB 1st ( if it doesn't see it when plugged in during boot)  or you may have an Option as you Boot , sometimes F8 or F12, to Choose the disk to Boot From.

 

You can try the bootdisk and just exit out with no problems assuming you don't do anything..... 

 

M.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

For those who may be interested, never got a clone to complete and the Tech support from Macrium, which was excellent, suggested through error reports that the existing SSD 850 PRO had some read errors and to try a couple things like a new SATA cable or different mother board port but I ran out of time and talent. I loaded Windows on to the new HD and am going through the pain that clean installs present pretty much every time but it feels good to have that clean install. DropBox has been a bit of a nightmare synching thousands of files etc. but it looks like everything will function OK when all is said and done.

 

The computer does indeed feel a bit snappier but I don't have any empirical evidence to show same. Also I had no idea how much data I really had and regret not getting the 2TB instead of the 1TB which requires much more file management. 

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

For those who may be interested, never got a clone to complete and the Tech support from Macrium, which was excellent, suggested through error reports that the existing SSD 850 PRO had some read errors and to try a couple things like a new SATA cable or different mother board port but I ran out of time and talent. I loaded Windows on to the new HD and am going through the pain that clean installs present pretty much every time but it feels good to have that clean install. DropBox has been a bit of a nightmare synching thousands of files etc. but it looks like everything will function OK when all is said and done.

 

The computer does indeed feel a bit snappier but I don't have any empirical evidence to show same. Also I had no idea how much data I really had and regret not getting the 2TB instead of the 1TB which requires much more file management. 

 

Thanks for the update.... looks like you may need to RMA the 850 if still in warranty , once you have the Data copied off it....

 

Order 2TB Clone 1TB and then wipe and return 1TB ........I hear it's the Amazon way....

 

M.

[HumbleChief]

Another update for those interested. If you've ever done a new install of Windows to a new hard drive you understand the pain that's coming. Loading all programs anew, managing files, locating textures and libraries and hot keys and tool bars and whew. Finally got all that taken care of and the computer was singing along and overall very happy with the upgraded M.2 drive. 

 

While working in a not too complex Chief file the computer hit that same old Chief performance wall where it starts to balk between refreshes and plan changes and gets just plain slow with no real improvement over the old SSD drive which is actually expected. Was just going to post how cool this new drive was and that Chief was performing much better but it's pretty much the same. Awesome until it hits that invisible wall where Chief starts to slow down, probably due to file and plan size, but actually unknown to me. Still happy with the upgrade but no real discernable performance gains.

[Kbird1]

Hi , you notice the NVME speed increase at 1st , then a few days later it is normal and you don't notice it in everyday use , at least that was my experience.

 

Make sure the Undo and Temp folders are on the NVME Drive now, they should be but I have dedicated folders on C:\ I point Chief to use instead....

They are generally empty when Chief is in use but occasionally leave download folders and undo.plans behind eg if there is a crash.

 

 

[HumbleChief]

4 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Hi , you notice the NVME speed increase at 1st , then a few days later it is normal and you don't notice it in everyday use , at least that was my experience.

 

Make sure the Undo and Temp folders are on the NVME Drive now, they should be but I have dedicated folders on C:\ I point Chief to use instead....

They are generally empty when Chief is in use but occasionally leave download folders and undo.plans behind eg if there is a crash.

 

 

+++ Thanks

[HumbleChief]

A quick update to the new hard drive install. For the most part very, very good and well worth the cost and effort but (you knew there was going to be a but didn't you) when Chief reaches a certain size and complexity no fast hard drive, CPU or fast GPU will fix the 'crawl' that those complex plans revert to. I have a plan now that takes 18 seconds between every change to any component. I'll post another thread seeing if it can be 'fixed' as it has become unworkable, no matter the speed of a hard drive.

 

 

[DRAWZILLA]

Larry is there anything running in the background while you are working?  your specs look ok to me.  Do you have lots of complicated railings?  I do try to stay with intel processers   I7 or I9 and always have. Good luck, I can see why you are going crazy.

[stevenyhof]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:43 PM, Kbird1 said:

Hi , you notice the NVME speed increase at 1st , then a few days later it is normal and you don't notice it in everyday use , at least that was my experience.

 

Make sure the Undo and Temp folders are on the NVME Drive now, they should be but I have dedicated folders on C:\ I point Chief to use instead....

They are generally empty when Chief is in use but occasionally leave download folders and undo.plans behind eg if there is a crash.

 

 

Hi Mick, (or anyone with knowledge of this)

I am about to order the "SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2 2280 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 x4, NVMe 1.3c Samsung V-NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) MZ-V8P2T0B/AM" - "Get read speeds up to 7,000 MB/s with 980 PRO" per Newegg.com

My son is telling me I should just reinstall CA on this drive and not on the C: drive. Does this make sense to gain some speed? Most of my work is without an issue now on SSD drives. My storage drive is where I have all my plans. 

I never paid attention until I read this thread and see we can control where the Temp and Undo folders are located, and it hit me that CA, knowing that these files are being accessed within the operation that we can take advantage of putting these folders on a NVMe drive to speed up file transfer rates.

This seems like a good move - yes?

Thank you,

Steve

[stevenyhof]

Another question I will have, and you can see that I have 4 monitors which I love as I draw (plan view) on the bottom left, 3D floor in my bottom right, client notes, etc on the top left and my email, calendar, schedule software (Asana), G-Drive, etc, in a browser on my top right. Works very nice.

My question is can 60Hz monitors slow down the performance of CA? Or better said, can a higher Hz increase performance speed with CA?

 

[stevenyhof]

This was very helpful...

https://www.chiefarchitect.com/support/article/KB-00521/troubleshooting-slowness-in-chief-architect-plans.html#Work on Files Locally

I would say I follow all these recommendations quite well and my speed is just fine for 95% of my work. I can experience some lag with larger houses, and then I keep my 3D off as much as I can which does speed it up. I do zoom meetings often where I use one monitor and split the screen to plan and 3D and then things slow down a bit.