How to dimension floor plan views when using full overlay cabinets

[sweetmelissa]

My question is regarding depth dimensions in floor plan view when using inset vs full overlay cabinets.  When cabinets are inset, it isn't an issue of course because the overall cabinet depth is the same... it shows the counter top and all is fine, however, with full overlay the cabinets actually extend out past the cabinet frame outline another 3/4" or 1" (we are doing jobs with 1" thick doors/drawers right now) PLUS another inch for the counter top.  So even when you have "cabinet doors/drawers" showing in the floor plan view, it isn't accurately portrayed or dimensioned.  Today, we went out to a job and the electrician was determining where to put light switches based on the drawings which showed a 25" deep (full height) cabinet when in reality it was 25" plus a 1" thick door.  

 

We do ALL custom cabinets made by the Amish... I also wonder how best to ensure they don't get confused by my drawings when some cabinets in the house are full overlay and some are inset... I indicate in the layout the style of cabinets for each room/elevation.  ...just trying to avoid mistakes.  

 

Also, I am now all of a sudden having trouble showing the outlines of the "cabinet: doors and drawers" in floor plan view when on previous plans I didn't.  Is it an X11 thing? I recently upgraded from 9 to 11 and now all new plans don't show the door/drawer outlines when it is clearly checked ON in floor plan view.  

 

I'm sure it's obvious that I'm fairly inexperienced, please overlook my ignorance! I appreciate your time and help!

Inset-Full overlay.plan

I've tried to attach a basic plan where you can see that the layer for doors/drawers is on but not showing and where if you want you can show me how you would dimension it, but it's saying the upload failed... not sure if it will go through.  

Melissa 

[Dermot]

You probably need to go into your General Cabinet Defaults and turn on "Show Closed Doors/Drawers in Plan Views".  By default, the program will only show cabinet doors and drawers when they are open.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy way to dimension to the cabinet face items in plan views.  You can dimension to the cabinet box or you can dimension to the counter top but not the face items.  You could use the point-to-point dimension tool or use cad lines to show the dimensions you want.  Maybe some of the other kitchen designers might comment on what they typically do to handle this case.

[MarkMc]

2 hours ago, sweetmelissa said:

We do ALL custom cabinets made by the Amish... I also wonder how best to ensure they don't get confused by my drawings when some cabinets in the house are full overlay and some are inset... I indicate in the layout the style of cabinets for each room/elevation.  ...just trying to avoid mistakes.  

Industry standard is cabinets are dimensioned to the box NOT to the door. If I ordered 25" deep cabinets from anyone I've ever dealt with they would either give me a 25" deep box or on a good day call me to check. I have never dimensioned to door fronts and not once had a problem with that.

I do go to great lengths to be clear though...

 

 provide general notes to the installer and maker. Note it there.

Even if it is a standard depth for the maker, for instance most often I have 13 to 14" deep wall cabinets. While these are standard for my makers they may also make some standard 12" deep wall cabinets so the wall cabinet depth is always noted. I don't want the wrong person processing my order sending me inset cabinets that are 12" deep. I want the installer to be aware they are not dealing with 12" deep cabinets

One thing I have found is the best way to avoid mistakes is to-draw and dimension it AND to note it. (and tell installer verbally)-Redundancy prevents issues.

 

IF for some reason the makers don't follow industry standard I would simply talk to them and ask what works for them, then do it. IF you really must dimension to the faces I would just set a CAD line and snap to that. (I never ever use point to point dimensions and don't allow my clients to either, just too risky IMO.

There is also generally somewhere on order forms to call out global items that you are doing that may not be typical-use it or make a place.

Then note on the plan something like "This view dimensioned to cabinet box and sheet rock" or whatever they understand (again ask them).

 

For the electrician I supply an electrical plan with what has been decided with the client. I also always tell them specifically (in person) how far from the wall I want the lights placed. Too often they want to put them too close to the wall cabinets, run into the crown or cause glare on the faces-OR they put them too far back creating a shadow when someone wants to work at the counter. Supply an electrical plan realizing that the side to side placement of recessed cans may need to be compromised to avoid joists (a good time to use "Ctr" or "Eq";  better yet get a stud finder and locate the joists :) I like to have recess lights placed to fall directly over someones head when they are working at the counter (26- 30") to 32" from the wall (depending on joist location if parallel) to avoid shadows.

Also for the electrician-whenever possible I go over preferred switching locations with clients so they don't have to. Then discuss with the electrician-this avoids problems and usually saves the electrician time,  makes them happy, and avoids reworks... so long as when they say "switch can't go here" or "that's a lot of extra work to run" you listen and take it back to the client.

[sweetmelissa]

1 hour ago, Dermot said:

You probably need to go into your General Cabinet Defaults and turn on "Show Closed Doors/Drawers in Plan Views".  By default, the program will only show cabinet doors and drawers when they are open.

Problem #1 fixed... Thank you!!  I knew it was something simple.  

 

In the attached pic, I set the front overhang for the counter top to be 2 inches which would fix the problem for showing the actual depth of the cabinet.  Obviously, doors/drawers has to be on for this to look right.  Do you guys show doors/drawers in this view with full overlay? It seems so "messy" to me, and I don't guess there's a way to show them only on certain rooms.  Is it necessary? I would love to know how others handle this issue.  

[robdyck]

i agree, It is messy. As mentioned earlier, dimensions should be to cabinet boxes only. That should also be mentioned in general notes. I would never dimension to a countertop, unless it was a critical area, and that would be shown in a separate detail, larger scale and noted.

[sweetmelissa]

Ok, got it. Thank you so much for clearing this up for me.  I will not show doors/drawers, and will do my best to make it clear on the plans with notes and to the manufacturer with notes and verbal directions.  

You guys are always so helpful on here.  Thank you x 100!

[MarkMc]

I always include a separate countertop only drawing which can be used for quotes. I also always show aisle, counter to counter, dimensions since that is what NKBA guidelines us. Far too many drawings come across my desk that have aisles dimensioned cabinet to cabinet and don't take overhangs into account (and often wouldn't meet guidelines with zero overhangs.). I also supply box to box dimensions either noted or in a separate plan view specific for installers.