AlvarD

Roof Material defaults

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I'm trying to understand the not-so-obvious default material assignment process on X10. I understand how a lot of the defaults in the Roof Defaults Materials DBX are inherited, like the Ridge Cap, and Fascia, but there are others that I can't figure where the actual default is set in Chief. For example, in the attached pic the Soffit / Eave usees a "Default: Color - Bone", and the Flush Eave uses "Default: Asphalt Roofing", but I can't find anywhere in the Defaults Setting -> Materials panel, where "Color - Bone" or "Asphalt Roofing" are used or specified. 

 

I can change, for example the "Soffit / Eave" to something other than "Default: Color - Bone", and then if I want to revert back to the default, I can choose the "Use default material" box in the material selection, but HOW is the "default material" being defined as "Color - Bone"? 

 

I attached a dummy plan that I'm using to test out the material defaults. 

 

 

image.thumb.png.ff6fe03d652d0b804fd4f165f43a4f91.png

material_test.plan

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Most are in the Roof Build DBX>Materials

 

the RidgeCap for unknown reasons in is Plan Defaults>Materials

 

Flush eave may not be what you think it is , it is maybe part of a Wall so may use the Default Exterior wall type by default or the current Roof surface material

 

page 785 of the Ref. Manual for more info....

: Check Flush Eave to produce box eaves that build flush with the adjacent exterior wall. When unchecked, boxed eaves build to the gable fascia.

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8 minutes ago, AlvarD said:

Flush Eave uses "Default: Asphalt Roofing"

 

I believe the Flush Eave uses the material from your default exterior wall.

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3 minutes ago, solver said:

 

I believe the Flush Eave uses the material from your default exterior wall.

 

I see it both ways as above , not sure if it is dictated by whether you have Boxed Eaves>flush Eave checked or not ?

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9 minutes ago, solver said:

 

I believe the Flush Eave uses the material from your default exterior wall.

Thanks Eric and Mick . I see it now. It would be SO much easier if Chief was consistent and used the same naming convention everywhere. For example, in this case, instead of just saying "Default: Asphalt Roofing", it could say "Default Exterior Wall Surface: Asphalt Roofing", like it does for many other materials, so you can figure out where they are really set. 

 

That takes care of the Flush Eave, so now where does the "Default: Color - Bone" come from for the Soffit/Eave and Skylight Shaft?

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41 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Most are in the Roof Build DBX>Materials

  

the RidgeCap for unknown reasons in is Plan Defaults>Materials

 

1st post....

 

ps: DBX is short for Dialog Box here on the Forums...

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I've managed to identify the source of all the default materials in Chief, except for one. The Roof -> Skylight Frame, which has a default of "Asphalt Roofing", which is not even a material. When you select it to see what it's using for default, it shows "Asphalt Roofing - Black", which is a material.  I can't find any material default DBX where anything is specified as "Asphalt Roofing", so I don't see where I would go to change this. I've attached the plan that matches the material defaults of the screenshot below. 

 

image.thumb.png.d31d8168c5ea7aff137620cb91d28dbf.png

 

BTW, here are the sources of all the roof materials, with the actual "Roof" material being the only one which doesn't pick up a default from anywhere else and you specify in the Roof Defaults DBX. 

 

image.thumb.png.925a117fccab30c4442d684f87b59add.png

Materials Usage Cross reference.plan

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3 minutes ago, AlvarD said:

I've managed to identify the source of all the default materials in Chief, except for one. The Roof -> Skylight Frame, which has a default of "Asphalt Roofing", which is not even a material. When you select it to see what it's using for default, it shows "Asphalt Roofing - Black", which is a material.  I can't find any material default DBX where anything is specified as "Asphalt Roofing", so I don't see where I would go to change this. I've attached the plan that matches the material defaults of the screenshot below. 

 

image.thumb.png.d31d8168c5ea7aff137620cb91d28dbf.png

 

BTW, here are the sources of all the roof materials, with the actual "Roof" material being the only one which doesn't pick up a default from anywhere else and you specify in the Roof Defaults DBX. 

 

image.thumb.png.925a117fccab30c4442d684f87b59add.png

Materials Usage Cross reference.plan

Oops, there was an error in my last pic showing the source of defaults for roof materials. Here's the correct one

 

image.thumb.png.63631567fc27b54aec3c2ebb55d97d9c.png

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1 hour ago, AlvarD said:

Oops, there was an error in my last pic showing the source of defaults for roof materials. Here's the correct one

 

image.thumb.png.63631567fc27b54aec3c2ebb55d97d9c.png

 

 

Are you sure you haven't change that in your Default ( or your) Template somehow? as I think the Default Template under Build Roof>Materials uses Dark as the Default Material for the Skylight Frame.

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27 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

 

Are you sure you haven't change that in your Default ( or your) Template somehow? as I think the Default Template under Build Roof>Materials uses Dark as the Default Material for the Skylight Frame.

 

I think it's a bug, or just a weird way that Chief works... I tried starting other plans from standard CA templates, and the Skylight Frame is set to a color (which varies from template to template), and when you go to change the material and set it to "use default", it uses whatever default the Plan originally had for the Roof material. However, if you then change the Roof Material, the default for the "Skylight Frame" can't be set any more, as it's not based on some other material default setting in the program that you can control.  You can, of course, go and set the Skylight Frame material to anything you want, but the "use default" is not controllable, like it is for everything else in the program. 

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5 minutes ago, AlvarD said:

I think it's a bug, or just a weird way that Chief works..

 

You maybe right, but i guess nobody has sent it in to tech Support , so it hasn't been fixed..... I usually have it set to Black these days , so hadn't really Noticed.

 

M.

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I'll send it to tech support!   

 

Thanks for looking into it Mick! 

 

-Alvar

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On 1/4/2019 at 4:50 PM, solver said:

 

I believe the Flush Eave uses the material from your default exterior wall.

 

Eric is correct...

See clips attached...

 

Current Defaults   Changed Defaults 

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6 hours ago, SNestor said:

 

Eric is correct...

See clips attached...

 

Current Defaults   Changed Defaults 

Indeed, it is the Exterior Wall default. I just wish Chief was consistent and always showed the source of the default. For example, in the Roof materials DBX (see attached pic), why can't it tells us the source of all the default settings, when using the default. It does for the Moldings, but not for the Flush Eave. It could also tell us that the Skylight Shaft and Soffit/Eave defaults are coming from the Floor Ceiling Platform - Ceiling Finish. It took me a while to decode all that, and I shouldn't have to. It should be as simple as looking in the DBX to find out the source of the default. 

 

image.thumb.png.4953e0920c77a087f2a5d63d7f40da71.png

 

Another example. For Interior Stairs material defaults, it just shows all the values

image.thumb.png.eb8ba4eb095a45d6763eb19c3c8993b6.png

 

When in fact, all the default values for the interior stairs are sourced as shown in this pic:

image.thumb.png.f61b8e4629dd41a9a8837d92ce0c1519.png

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15 hours ago, SNestor said:

 

Eric is correct...

See clips attached...

 

Current Defaults   Changed Defaults 

 

This is how it should be, but isn't always as the OP's pics show in Post 1......I have seen this many times myself also , I see it both ways as above , not sure if it is dictated by whether you have Boxed Eaves>flush Eave checked or not  or on by default in your Template? I have no idea why or where it get Ashpalt Roofing from as it is not a "material" in CA's Library.

 

Many built in default materials do not have textures etc associated with them though on the Material's Properties DBX.

 

 

 

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I reported the problem with the Skylight Frame material and they admit it's an issue.  Here's the summary of the case:

 

image.thumb.png.6d0afe2b4804ea3e9022247466978627.png

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Sorry, I think tech support was mistaken.  You control the skylight material defaults in the Roof Defaults. I think this is just one instance where Chief probably shouldn't even have the Use Default option available since this location is the lowest level setting.  In other words, I would put it like this...

 

You found the default setting.  Chief just probably needs to remove the option to Use Default for that particular item.

 

 

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:34 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

Sorry, I think tech support was mistaken.  You control the skylight material defaults in the Roof Defaults. I think this is just one instance where Chief probably shouldn't even have the Use Default option available since this location is the lowest level setting.  In other words, I would put it like this...

 

You found the default setting.  Chief just probably needs to remove the option to Use Default for that particular item.

 

 

Removing the "Use Default" option is certainly an acceptable answer, thus just making it a low-level material assignment. The reason for the support case was that as implemented, the "Use Default" doesn't work, so they should either have it point to some other default that is controllable, or like you suggest, just remove the use of a default for it. 

 

I also submitted another case for what I consider another "bug" in the current use of material defaults in X10. If you ever set the Door materials for the Exterior Sliding door to their defaults, you will notice that the Material for the "Door (interior)" is using the default specified in the general materials default for "Door (exterior)". Similarly, the defaults for both Interior and Exterior door materials, in the Bifold door, are picking up their defaults for the general materials default for "Door (exterior)" 

 

-Alvar

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