PBR, GRAPHICS CARDS, SLI/CROSSFIRE x10

[limitless8]

So, dear chiefers,

I decided to search the forums and topics, and found that there is a topic nobody has really brought up, and I decided to be the first.

 

I would love it if somebody who works for chief would also chip in on this discussion.

 

So, previously we all know that having dual graphics cards in SLI or crossire was useless in Chief because ray tracing was all CPU based and wouldn't bring you any real kick.

 

Now that we are in the PBR era, which is completely GPU based, my question is the following, would me updating to a SLI config of two 1080's create a real difference?  IF there is anybody out there who happens to have an SLI system, and could maybe do a test run on a complex PBR scene, one time with one card, and the second time in SLI, and tell us is there a real difference in time and how well the system processes it?
 

As for chief spokes people or tech department, I'd like to think maybe you guys have already played around with this, if not,  maybe you could and let us all know, because if SLI will prove to bump performance in PBR scenes with many objects and mirrors and so on, I would definitely go SLI in the near future.

 

Thank you ahead of time to anybody who can drop their two cents on this!

[BryanBrown380]

I too would like to understand how the pbr engine works with different hardware. For example if we could get some official benchmarks, just an idea. It just would be nice so we could make more educated hardware purchases for our use cases.

[limitless8]

Yeah if I would have two cards I would definitely do a showdown and see if SLI will improve PBR for everybody, sadly I'm limited to one for now

[BryanBrown380]

Maybe the community could get together and come up with a benchmark database and do testing from a sample plan so any one could download and test really easy.

I will look into it.

[limitless8]

Just now, BryanBrown380 said:

Maybe the community could get together and come up with a benchmark database and do testing from a sample plan so any one could download and test really easy.

I think that's a great idea, maybe a few chief veterans like kitchenadobe and jeff etc if the hardware permits could chip in.  Overall chief could also maybe consider having this on their website after some testing to enlighten us all before we begin building new systems

[limitless8]

Also I'll throw in the following nugget, if somebody manages to show us that SLI is worth it when it comes to PBR, I would get dual 1080's soon, if it turns out to be a bust, I'll got with a 2080

[TheKitchenAbode]

Concerning PBR I doubt if it would be worth the expense. I'm running with a 1060 and it only takes about 3 seconds to run a fairly complex scene. Not worth spending $1,000 or more to gain maybe 1 second of PBR time.

 

Also, it's my understanding that SLI may improve gamming performance but generating static images is a different process and SLI may not provide much improvement.

[limitless8]

28 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Concerning PBR I doubt if it would be worth the expense. I'm running with a 1060 and it only takes about 3 seconds to run a fairly complex scene. Not worth spending $1,000 or more to gain maybe 1 second of PBR time.

 

Also, it's my understanding that SLI may improve gamming performance but generating static images is a different process and SLI may not provide much improvement.

So you are saying that even without any lets say tests, our best bet is going with a 2070 or 2080, or the previous generation if we are looking to upgrade and increase times.  Because my 980 strix when it comes to a complex scene, runs at 100% load in overclock, and soemtimes when changin the camera angle in 3d view, it lags due to reflections and imported furniture and so on.

[BryanBrown380]

46 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Concerning PBR I doubt if it would be worth the expense. I'm running with a 1060 and it only takes about 3 seconds to run a fairly complex scene. Not worth spending $1,000 or more to gain maybe 1 second of PBR time.

 

Also, it's my understanding that SLI may improve gamming performance but generating static images is a different process and SLI may not provide much improvement.

I would have to agree SLI is probably not the best bet. Most games don't even support it or scale well enough for it to be worth. But it would be nice to see the comparison between cards in chief besides just gaming benchmarks that the internet is full of.

[limitless8]

well I don't know what architecture PBR is based on, but I was looking at a video now comparing 1080,1080ti,2070,2080, and 2080ti, the test was based on a star wars demo ray tracing moment of troopers with a lot of reflections...the overall conclusion was that the new RTX cards handle the scene at over 40 fps, while the 10 series barely get 15 even the TI, so personally to me, it indicates that I'd be better off with a 2080 now.

[BryanBrown380]

Well this is going to get technical. I do know that PBR is openGL. That Star Wars benchmark from Nvidia is pretty misleading. The reason the new RTX handled it much better was because they coded it to use the new tensor cores in those gpus. Those cores are not in previous generation cards and it is up to the developers to make their software utilize them. However in FP32 shader performance the 2080ti is about 25% faster than the 1080ti. If you want more information about check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_x1JGG4JC8

Its pretty sneaky stuff they pulled to make it look really good.

 

 

[limitless8]

17 minutes ago, BryanBrown380 said:

Well this is going to get technical. I do know that PBR is openGL. That Star Wars benchmark from Nvidia is pretty misleading. The reason the new RTX handled it much better was because they coded it to use the new tensor cores in those gpus. Those cores are not in previous generation cards and it is up to the developers to make their software utilize them. However in FP32 shader performance the 2080ti is about 25% faster than the 1080ti. If you want more information about check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_x1JGG4JC8

Its pretty sneaky stuff they pulled to make it look really good.

 

 

So I watched the video, I love his accent, gives the video flare )  Overall still the conclusion comes down to the fact that a 2080 will faster than 1080ti in many aspects, and considering where I am both are at about the same price now, I think a 2080 will be my best bet, and I'm sure coming from a 980 strix, I will be blown away.

[BryanBrown380]

3 minutes ago, limitless8 said:

So I watched the video, I love his accent, gives the video flare )  Overall still the conclusion comes down to the fact that a 2080 will faster than 1080ti in many aspects, and considering where I am both are at about the same price now, I think a 2080 will be my best bet, and I'm sure coming from a 980 strix, I will be blown away.

I agree with you, Its just not double+ performance they would like you to think.

[limitless8]

I agree, well that is marketing for you ) I've been happy with the 980, but I believe with PBR which I mostly live with now, a 2080 would change my world when it comes to how complex a scene can get before it becomes laggy, not ot mention exporting the PBR image at almost 4k resolution, I'm sure a 2080 will cut some time off that for sure

[MarkMc]

I'd asked at the Academy in August if they knew if Chief would or could be optimized for the new RT aspect of the cards. At that time they had just gotten back from the launch and had no information. I intend to wait to hear. Talk on gaming forums is often either "wait and see" or "not worth it but will bring 10 series prices down". Now gaming is not Chief so there are challenges in distinguishing value there. I'm also keeping an eye on the AMD 7nm cards. I'd been hoping to get a new machine in 2019 but for the moment don't see it worth the cost.

FWIW I think your Strix has 4GB Vram, yes? I manage to behave pretty badly with my 980m which has fewer cores but 8GB-might be worth keeping in mind?

[BryanBrown380]

So I opened up the Grandview sample plan and found a possibility. For a benchmark we need something repeatable so I think walkthrough paths would work great since you can render them in PBR. The only problem is it does not have a timer for completion like the raytracing window does. Wonder if that would be something easy to implement?

[BryanBrown380]

4 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

I'd asked at the Academy in August if they knew if Chief would or could be optimized for the new RT aspect of the cards. At that time they had just gotten back from the launch and had no information. I intend to wait to hear. Talk on gaming forums is often either "wait and see" or "not worth it but will bring 10 series prices down". Now gaming is not Chief so there are challenges in distinguishing value there. I'm also keeping an eye on the AMD 7nm cards. I'd been hoping to get a new machine in 2019 but for the moment don't see it worth the cost.

FWIW I think your Strix has 4GB Vram, yes? I manage to behave pretty badly with my 980m which has fewer cores but 8GB-might be worth keeping in mind?

7nm AMD cards looking really good if the rumors are true!

[limitless8]

2 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

I'd asked at the Academy in August if they knew if Chief would or could be optimized for the new RT aspect of the cards. At that time they had just gotten back from the launch and had no information. I intend to wait to hear. Talk on gaming forums is often either "wait and see" or "not worth it but will bring 10 series prices down". Now gaming is not Chief so there are challenges in distinguishing value there. I'm also keeping an eye on the AMD 7nm cards. I'd been hoping to get a new machine in 2019 but for the moment don't see it worth the cost.

FWIW I think your Strix has 4GB Vram, yes? I manage to behave pretty badly with my 980m which has fewer cores but 8GB-might be worth keeping in mind?

Well yeah you have 4gb of vram more, but when it comes to cuda cores and mem bandwith and speed the desktop version has a lot more kick.  I think it comes down to the textures, materials, amount of reflective surfaces you will use in your PBR scene, and naturally how many imported objects.  I sometimes have imported stuff that has very high polygon counts, and a house plan comes out to half a giig easily  

[Renerabbitt]

Would I ever upgrade to an SLI for a better experience in PBR...absolutely not, the trade off isn't there. Also if I am to weigh the cost to benefit of SLI vs a new faster card, the answer is always new faster card. The cost of ownership on the extra power consumption is not worth an SLI setup.

IMO the only reason to get an SLI is with 2 of the newest cards to solve a problem or have 1 year of the best frame rates on the newest video games.

You just wont see that much of a difference in PBR

[Renerabbitt]

I personally use VERY large texture files that I have imported from my rendering programs and have zero problem in PBR with my 1070

[limitless8]

yeah well your 1070 is  more powerful than my 980, and as said, where I am now, the price line between a 2080 vs a 1080ti or even 1080 is barely existant. I could save some cash and go for a 2070, and still get more punch, so I'm still playing around with what is the best to go with at the moment.

[TheKitchenAbode]

It's important to keep in mind that the graphics card is only part of the equation. The CPU is also involved in PBR'ing. What's important is to ensure that the CPU and GPU are appropriately matched. No point in having the fastest GPU on the market if the CPU can't keep up with it. That GPU will just be sitting idle while it waits for the CPU to send it the next instruction set.

[BryanBrown380]

1 minute ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

It's important to keep in mind that the graphics card is only part of the equation. The CPU is also involved in PBR'ing. What's important is to ensure that the CPU and GPU are appropriately matched. No point in having the fastest GPU on the market if the CPU can't keep up with it. That GPU will just be sitting idle while it waits for the CPU to send it the next instruction set.

Good point, its crazy how you can now get 12 thread processors for $150. Who would have thought 2 years ago.

[limitless8]

4 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

It's important to keep in mind that the graphics card is only part of the equation. The CPU is also involved in PBR'ing. What's important is to ensure that the CPU and GPU are appropriately matched. No point in having the fastest GPU on the market if the CPU can't keep up with it. That GPU will just be sitting idle while it waits for the CPU to send it the next instruction set.

I completely agree, but I don't see any point in going with a ryzen 6 core, or new intel 6 core, my 5930k 6 core 12 thread at OC of 4.4 does the job very well, and I don't think a new powerful card would not match cpu, unless somebody can explain otherwise

[BryanBrown380]

3 minutes ago, limitless8 said:

I completely agree, but I don't see any point in going with a ryzen 6 core, or new intel 6 core, my 5930k 6 core 12 thread at OC of 4.4 does the job very well, and I don't think a new powerful card would not match cpu, unless somebody can explain otherwise

Oh no you're fine that is still a beast.