Same Material Same Properties - Different Display in PBR

[HumbleChief]

I have a plan where the same material displays differently when using PBR. Same properties same material different look. Displays fine in standard view, and in a new template plan but this plan insists on displaying differently when using PRB.

 

I can use standard view no problem for my presentation but just curious as to what I might be missing - or if it might be my system?

 

Thanks

MATERIAL_DIFFERENCE_1.plan

[HumbleChief]

Here's my template that seems to display OK

MATERIAL_DIFF_2.plan

[HumbleChief]

...and a screen shot of what I'm seeing...

 

Thanks

 

[HumbleChief]

Darn the beams are behaving the same way...

 

 

[MarkMc]

I can get close if while in camera I change to a lower floor.

It appears to be sun related OR your added lights. I added a couple of cans, changed light set, turned off added lights in the Quick version

Your default plan has no added lights and not enough window exposure for the sun to matter much.

MATERIAL_DIFFERENCE_quick.plan

[HumbleChief]

Thanks for taking the time Mark. I tried with no lights, more lights, new materials, the beams are behaving the same when their display is turned on.

 

Looks like adding the second floor causes the wonkiness - and deleting the second floor in the example plan cures it as well. So I'm good to go as long I work on single story homes

 

 

 

 

 

[MarkMc]

19 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

So I'm good to go as long I work on single story homes

Works in your plan with adjustment.

Beams in your current plan. Did not see them at first so got rid of ceiling and turned all layers on.

Made new lighting set- left just two light sources on and unchecked shadows, checked improve light quality in technique options. Saved the camera and settings.

MATERIAL_DIFFERENCE_beams.plan

[HumbleChief]

3 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

Works in your plan with adjustment.

Beams in your current plan. Did not see them at first so got rid of ceiling and turned all layers on.

Made new lighting set- left just two light sources on and unchecked shadows, checked improve light quality in technique options. Saved the camera and settings.

MATERIAL_DIFFERENCE_beams.plan

Thanks as always but the materials are still different - better but different. And should it really require such machinations to get (closer to) right? And why does adding the second floor kill the material's look?

[MarkMc]

3 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Thanks as always but the materials are still different - better but different. And should it really require such machinations to get (closer to) right? And why does adding the second floor kill the material's look?

Do you  mean different in PBR than in standard? Materials ALWAYS appear different in standard than PBR (same as in Ray tracing) if that is what you mean? PBR does more with the light than standard. I'm usually previewing my materials in PBR. I've found that (when there is some real life reference like BM paint chips) colors are closer to real life in PBR (and RT) than in standard).

As a rule, adding a second floor helps with light bleed, as does the roof.

PBR adjustment takes a little work with lighting though not much. BTW I avoid sun follows camera.

[HumbleChief]

21 minutes ago, MarkMc said:

Do you  mean different in PBR than in standard? Materials ALWAYS appear different in standard than PBR (same as in Ray tracing) if that is what you mean? PBR does more with the light than standard. I'm usually previewing my materials in PBR. I've found that (when there is some real life reference like BM paint chips) colors are closer to real life in PBR (and RT) than in standard).

As a rule, adding a second floor helps with light bleed, as does the roof.

PBR adjustment takes a little work with lighting though not much. BTW I avoid sun follows camera.

Sorry Mark, what I mean is that the 2 materials, the base and the chimney section of the fireplace are the same material but they look different when in PBR view than standard view. Your adjustments helped but they still look different after adding a second floor...

[Renerabbitt]

33 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Sorry Mark, what I mean is that the 2 materials, the base and the chimney section of the fireplace are the same material but they look different when in PBR view than standard view. Your adjustments helped but they still look different after adding a second floor...

Haven't look yet, but typically this happens from a material breaking an exterior plane and picks up lighting from the sun/environment. If the beams or the fireplace penetrate the ceiling plane this will happen

[HumbleChief]

10 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

Haven't look yet, but typically this happens from a material breaking an exterior plane and picks up lighting from the sun/environment. If the beams or the fireplace penetrate the ceiling plane this will happen

Thanks and very interesting...and not doubting your assessment but wondering why, when adding a second floor in my template plan and the example plan, that changes the look of the material? Curious. I'll try dropping the p-solid created in elevation below the ceiling and see what happens, even though part of the room has no ceiling 

[HumbleChief]

Seems to cure the problem when I drop the p-line below some arbitrary height, but I'm noticing the beams are still buggered...

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

7 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Thanks and very interesting...and not doubting your assessment but wondering why, when adding a second floor in my template plan and the example plan, that changes the look of the material? Curious. I'll try dropping the p-solid created in elevation below the ceiling and see what happens, even though part of the room has no ceiling 

PBR from what I can tell has limited checks when it recalcs. best practice is to keep materials confined to  room as the lighting will bleed from the greatest light source. Would suggest building a p solid at every level for a chimney to keep them separated between floors. If you have zero lights on floor 1 but have a ton of lights on floor two it will be a coin toss as to which of the two provides lighting to the material

[HumbleChief]

2 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

PBR from what I can tell has limited checks when it recalcs. best practice is to keep materials confined to  room as the lighting will bleed from the greatest light source. Would suggest building a p solid at every level for a chimney to keep them separated between floors. If you have zero lights on floor 1 but have a ton of lights on floor two it will be a coin toss as to which of the two provides lighting to the material

Yeah thanks Rene. I posted a video showing that simply adding a second floor wrecks the material look as well and as you've pointed out it seems that material inherits the look from the floor above and not the floor it was drawn upon.  Interesting - hope this thread helps.

 

 

[MarkMc]

21 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Seems to cure the problem when I drop the p-line below some arbitrary height, but I'm noticing the beams are still buggered...

There is a light leak at the soffit outside. Sun is too high for interior PBR. Only thing done for this was change sun to 100 and NOT follow camera. Also added a second floor to it with no  change.

[MarkMc]

Think roof planes not joined may be part of it.

And con't forget "improve light quality"

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

Thanks and very interesting...and not doubting your assessment but wondering why, when adding a second floor in my template plan and the example plan, that changes the look of the material? Curious. I'll try dropping the p-solid created in elevation below the ceiling and see what happens, even though part of the room has no ceiling 

Just curious what screen capture software do you use?

 

[HumbleChief]

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

Just curious what screen capture software do you use?

 

Snagit...

[HumbleChief]

2 hours ago, MarkMc said:

There is a light leak at the soffit outside. Sun is too high for interior PBR. Only thing done for this was change sun to 100 and NOT follow camera. Also added a second floor to it with no  change.

THANK YOU - will explore when I get time....

[HumbleChief]

6 hours ago, MarkMc said:

There is a light leak at the soffit outside. Sun is too high for interior PBR. Only thing done for this was change sun to 100 and NOT follow camera. Also added a second floor to it with no  change.

Tried those simple changes and the beams were still light blue. No doubt your suggestions have merit but it's a bit stupid to have to deal with 'light leaks' and other anomalies when using PBR. It should just work without having to lower the sun for an 'interior' PBR view or turn down the sun to 100 because the sun affects the display of material 'inside' the building. I assume Chief is working on these issues but hey maybe not. I don't care. I don't have time to deal with all the issues and will find other ways to present as I really don't need PBR.

 

Every time I've tried it's been hours of wasted time. Do I even want to learn? Not so sure for the small gains in quality

 

Always appreciate your excellent help.

 

[agr361]

22 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Haven't look yet, but typically this happens from a material breaking an exterior plane and picks up lighting from the sun/environment. If the beams or the fireplace penetrate the ceiling plane this will happen

This solved my problem that was driving me crazy!...Appreciate the help!!!!

[HumbleChief]

5 minutes ago, agr361 said:

This solved my problem that was driving me crazy!...Appreciate the help!!!!

Yes great tip but why do material behave this way and how would anyone guess at this behavior?

[agr361]

4 minutes ago, HumbleChief said:

Yes great tip but why do material behave this way and how would anyone guess at this behavior?

I don't have access to the program right now, but if you create a block of that material outdoors and the same one indoors, not connected to each other, what happens? Do you still get that glowing effect on the outdoor one?

 

[HumbleChief]

6 minutes ago, agr361 said:

I don't have access to the program right now, but if you create a block of that material outdoors and the same one indoors, not connected to each other, what happens? Do you still get that glowing effect on the outdoor one?

 

Can't reproduce the problem in a new plan. No matter where the solid ends up nothing happens to the visual - it remains the same through all iterations, as one would expect; second floor; pulled way up in to sun light; sun light changed; it still looks good - in this new plan. Tried all kinds of different things and could not get it to misbehave. Must be plan specific and it seems that some understand the mechanics when it does misbehave, I'm not that interested and will use other methods when confronted with PBR materials behaving badly. 

Hey would that be PBRMBB?