moldings

[EdDesign]

I asked this before but somehow my ID or signature isn't connecting so Solver's post

isn't accessible.I'm modeling a simple tub shower enclosure with a subway tile field

and a 3/4  1/4 rnd on each edge. I drew a simple 3/4 1/4 rnd profile and installed it in

my user library as a molding. It works very nicely as a 3D molding on the horizontal

edges but will not draw on the vertical edges. My goal is for the 1/4 rnd molding to 

meet at the inside and outside corners forming a mitered corner just like in real life.

I can draw the horizontal edges in plan view but can:t seem to do the same for the vertical edges

in elevation. I'm using a polyline solid for the tile field and the mortar float beneath it. These are attached to

the interior drywall layer of the room wall. As in real life the 1/4 rnd should wrap tile/mortar edge 

to create a 1/4 rnd corner. So what am I missing here? Many thanks for reading all this.

Ed Spena   EdDesign  Chief X7 Premium    MSI GT 70 2pc Dominator

Is this my signature?

Is there some basic tutorial on how to use ChiefTalk?

 

[Chopsaw]

Hi Ed,   Looks like you have filled in your company name in the signature spot.  That is ok but what we are all looking for there is your real name if you are willing to share it but more importantly your Chief version and computer system specifications and operating system.  Take a look at what others have posted for examples.

 

Dan has laid out the hard and fast rules here : 

 

 

And then you may get a few friendly reminders from time to time about procedures that are helpful or just common courtesy.

 

Such as this particular question belongs in the Q&A forum and a screen shot of you issue would be helpful or an example of what you need to achieve could be posted.

 

Plan files or small example plans are usually the best way to get a precise answer.

 

You can copy and past this to the Q&A forum and then delete this entire post.

 

Sorry I am not really an expert with moldings yet and don't  quite understand your question totally but there are lots of others that will and are here to help.

[TheKitchenAbode]

If you wish to draw a molding in both horizontal and vertical planes then you need to use the 3D Molding Line tool. You can then insert breaks and change the direction. Just make sure to set the vertical and horizontal offsets so the molding is correctly positioned on the polyline so the connected corners where it changes direction will be correct, this will vary depending on the moldings profile.

[EdDesign]

Hello Graham

Thanks for your reply. I running Chief X7 Premium. I able to draw a 3d molding line in 2 directions in plan view but when I try to edit the molding in cross section elevation view

it doesn"t work. I'm unable to use the brake line tool to brake the horizontal line so I can draw a vertical line. Either the molding line lights up for editing but turns off when I click on the brake line tool. If I move the editing dots on the molding line the molding simply goes nuts. It feels like X7 doesn't support doing this. The only video I've found so far is #396 and it's

pretty limited. Perhaps you could shed a little more light on this.  Greatly appreciated. Many thanks   Ed spena

I've attached some PDF views.

 

 

Bath Sidewall Elevation.pdf

Bath Elevation.pdf

Basic Bath Floorplan.pdf

[TheKitchenAbode]

The 3D molding line can be a bit wonky to work with, there are times when you can only insert break points in a particular view such as plan and then you need to flip back to your elevation view to grab it. The other issue I have found with the 3D molding line is that it works best in only two planes, better to use the 3D molding polyline if you are trying to draw in 3 planes, this may result in a molding section that you do not want, just select the edge and remove the molding from that edge so it is not visible. Usually when I work with these I will have a plan view, several elevations and a 3 D camera view open so I can see what is going on and to make sure I'm using the correct view to select the line segment or insert a break.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Just to give you some hope this staircase and balcony railing systems was done using the 3D molding line.

 

 

In this model, other than the cars and main walls, everything was done using the 3D molding line. Roof Trusses, Valance Soffit, Railings, Sprinkler System, HVAC, beams and Columns.

[Alaskan_Son]

I personally think 3D moldings kinda stink.  I almost never use them...especially for any that need to be applied to more than 2 planes.  For that situation though, I would probably either use three 3D molding polylines, or I would use primitives/faces/boolean operations.

[johnny]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I personally think 3D moldings kinda stink.  I almost never use them...especially for any that need to be applied to more than 2 planes.  For that situation though, I would probably either use three 3D molding polylines, or I would use primitives/faces/boolean operations.

 

I agree with Michael.  Its more trouble than they are worth getting all the settings right.  I suppose the exception to this may be if you spend time developing something you can use over and over.

[Alaskan_Son]

37 minutes ago, johnny said:

Its more trouble than they are worth getting all the settings right.

 

I would go further than that.  For many (if not most...or maybe even ALL) situations where a molding is applied continuously to follow more than a single plane, there is no combination of settings that actually work correctly...especially if you want proper miters.  If you want accuracy, solids/faces/boolean operations are often the ONLY way in Chief.

[dshall]

2 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

I personally think 3D moldings kinda stink.  I almost never use them...especially for any that need to be applied to more than 2 planes.  For that situation though, I would probably either use three 3D molding polylines, or I would use primitives/faces/boolean operations.

 

I agree,  I haven’t tried using them in years.  Too much trouble.

[Alaskan_Son]

I think this is probably pretty clear to most, but just to be clear here, I'm not talking about 3D molding symbols.  I'm talking about 3D molding lines/polylines.  Although they could use some improvements, 3D molding symbols are great.  It's 3D molding lines/polylines that are stinky supreme. 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Interesting to hear these experiences concerning 3D molding lines/polylines. I agree 100% that they can be tricky to manipulate, especially when working in 3 planes. In the past I never used these tools but had a recent project where I had to accurately replicate an existing two story staircase wooden handrail, not sure what other tool could be used to do this as the built-in staircase handrail feature could not replicate it. As it was my first real experience with this it was certainly difficult to get a handle on manipulating the 3D molding line through X, Y and Z transitions and to get the correct miters at these transition points. Yes this was frustrating and very time consuming, but from a first time experience I would say it would be no worse than ones first time trying to "accurately" replicate a staircase winder. After this project I had a bit of downtime which prompted me to further explore this tool, the two renders I posted above demonstrate the results. Certainly from those experiences I was impressed as to how many elements could be modeled with just this one tool, in both of them I just used the 3D molding polyline. It should also be noted that the items created were intentional, accurate and precisely positioned in the models. Not sure how one could build many of those elements any other way. Also, as they were built using combinations of single and multiple molding profiles they can if need be easily modified by substituting a different molding profile or changing a profiles size or position in respect to the molding polyline.

 

Concerning miters, there is no doubt that as one transitions into differing planes that mitered joints can go amiss. When this occurred it seemed to happen for two reasons, one the molding due to it's profile was not position correctly(horizontal vertical offsets) on the polyline or two, I was changing the polyline orientation in a plane(s) that such a miter would not be possible in real life for the type of molding profile I was using.

 

Manipulating the line, dragging it around, is tricky and this took a while to gain a bit of perspective as to what was going on. It was imperative that I was using the appropriate camera type and view in respect to the lines position(orientation) and the direction I wanted to manipulate it. In two planes this was not much of an issue, just needed the correct elevation or plan view. It's line segments that are in a third plane and it becomes even more difficult especially if the line in the third plane is also angled off in more than 1 plane in the 3rd plane direction. As you can surmise, the ability to accurately drag such a line in 2D is extremely difficult as when the line is being dragged it is not just extending across/parallel to your camera view but it can also be extending away or towards the camera at the same time. I'm still grappling with this but it seems that you either have to enter hard end/start values or set up a camera that is precisely angled so the line is 100% parallel to your camera view according to the direction you wish to drag the line.

 

The tool is not perfect by any means, but then what tool in CA's arsenal is? They all have their own personalities and at times quirky behaviors, the 3D molding line and polylines are no different, maybe it just takes a bit more time and effort to get to know and understand them.

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

Graham,

 

Here's an example plan with a pretty simple molding extrusion wrapping around the edge of some tile.  Can you mimic this with the 3D molding tool?  If so, how long does it take you?

 

Solid molding example.plan

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

Michael - Here it is using a 3D molding line. Everything seems to be fine. I included a pic with the molding pulled away from the wall. It took me about 1 minute to draw the line, I'm no speed demon, and then I just had to select/apply the molding. The advantage here is that if there are any changes to the tile height or the molding profile needs to be changed it's quick and fast. But as I have mentioned before these 3D Molding lines can go wonky real fast if the camera views are not spot on. For this I used the floor plan for the main horizontal run and two elevation views to get the verticals.

 

Here is one that wraps around this house. There are 3 moldings applied to this one line, all the miters seem to be ok.

 

Here is an example where I needed to configure a shower control and hand sprayer from individual components. I used a 3D molding line to model the water supply hose for the hand sprayer. It's just a round handrail set to 1/2" diameter.

[Alaskan_Son]

7 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Michael - Here it is using a 3D molding line. Everything seems to be fine. I included a pic with the molding pulled away from the wall.

No plan file?

[TheKitchenAbode]

Here it is. I duplicated your original to the right and saved the cameras.

 

Solid molding example.plan

[Alaskan_Son]

29 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Here it is. I duplicated your original to the right and saved the cameras.

 

Solid molding example.plan

 

Sweet.  Thanks Graham.  I just left the office heading to a job site but I’ll take a look when I get back to the office this afternoon.

 

Honestly, I’m a little surprised you were able to do that with a single 3D molding line.  I may have to spend a little more time with that tool.  

 

I can post an example when I get back to the office, but I’m curious if you can do the following  (if I can explain it well enough)...

 

Draw 2 walls that come together at an acute angle.  Draw a chair rail molding on one of the walls that angles upward from the floor to the sharp outside corner.  Mirror that same situation on the opposite wall.  Now place a window so that it interrupts one of the moldings.  My questions:

 

1.  Can you make the molding cut parallel to the floor

 

2.  Is the miter correct at that outside corner?

 

3.  Is the molding flat against the wall as it should be?

 

4.  Can you properly break the molding at the window opening?  

[Alaskan_Son]

15 hours ago, solver said:

In your example Michael, I'd use a Molding Polyline, and a 3D Molding Polyline (wrapping the green tile).

 

Simple to do using tools I understand.

 

 

Yeah, that’s the other basic method I was envisioning too.  I may have to take a serious look at spending some more time with 3D molding polylines though if what Graham has shown is truly all it appears to be.  It just hasn’t been my experience to date.  

[TheKitchenAbode]

52 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Sweet.  Thanks Graham.  I just left the office heading to a job site but I’ll take a look when I get back to the office this afternoon.

 

Honestly, I’m a little surprised you were able to do that with a single 3D molding line.  I may have to spend a little more time with that tool.  

 

I can post an example when I get back to the office, but I’m curious if you can do the following  (if I can explain it well enough)...

 

Draw 2 walls that come together at an acute angle.  Draw a chair rail molding on one of the walls that angles upward from the floor to the sharp outside corner.  Mirror that same situation on the opposite wall.  Now place a window so that it interrupts one of the moldings.  My questions:

 

1.  Can you make the molding cut parallel to the floor

 

2.  Is the miter correct at that outside corner?

 

3.  Is the molding flat against the wall as it should be?

 

4.  Can you properly break the molding at the window opening?  

 

Hi Michael - I don't think it can do all of your items. From my playing around it's as if you only have a miter saw, so anything requiring a compound miter seems to be out of the question. 

[Alaskan_Son]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:25 AM, TheKitchenAbode said:

Here it is. I duplicated your original to the right and saved the cameras.

 

Solid molding example.plan

 

I had a chance to take a look at your plan.  Honestly, the intent of my challenge was to show the simple level at which 3D molding polylines fail to deliver; HOWEVER, it looks like I inadvertently presented a sort of ideal example of all that the 3D molding polyline CAN do.  

 

I learned a couple things in the process though.  I can definitely see that the 3D molding polyline is capable of handling at least a little more than I thought BUT, the example I posted basically illustrates its limits.  Anything much more complicated than that (such as the challenge I posted in my last thread, or continuing that molding from the wall down onto the floor while still having it lay flat on the floor) would require multiple molding polylines with multiple molding profiles.  Definitely a bit more versatile than I was originally thinking, but still won’t likely make my list of favorite features anytime soon.  

 

Thanks for the example Graham.  

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I had a chance to take a look at your plan.  Honestly, the intent of my challenge was to show the simple level at which 3D molding polylines fail to deliver; HOWEVER, it looks like I inadvertently presented a sort of ideal example of all that the 3D molding polyline CAN do.  

 

I learned a couple things in the process though.  I can definitely see that the 3D molding polyline is capable of handling at least a little more than I thought BUT, the example I posted basically illustrates its limits.  Anything much more complicated than that (such as the challenge I posted in my last thread, or continuing that molding from the wall down onto the floor while still having it lay flat on the floor) would require multiple molding polylines with multiple molding profiles.  Definitely a bit more versatile than I was originally thinking, but still won’t likely make my list of favorite features anytime soon.  

 

Thanks for the example Graham.  

 

I was a bit surprised by the model you sent, was expecting something more challenging or impossible. How ever there is a lot of value in demonstrating what a tool can do versus what it can't do.

[Alaskan_Son]

2 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

I was a bit surprised by the model you sent, was expecting something more challenging or impossible. How ever there is a lot of value in demonstrating what a tool can do versus what it can't do.

 

Absolutely.