Missing items in X10 Preferences and Components dbx

[ambrozac]

I don't know if something has changed, or my program didn't migrate correctly.  I've attached a couple of images, hopefully explaining what I'm needing to know.  I am used to learning new tools, but it throws me off, if something is taken away, which I'm not sure about.  Any help would be appreciated, or maybe a link to a helpful video.  I need to know how to get back, that which might have been taken away, so it will work equal to, or better than X9.  You might know this was the first area I looked at, in X10 and I can't get beyond it, until I get this figured out........Thanks!

[ambrozac]

Thanks Eric.  If I don't receive an answer through this forum, in a few days, I'll check in with support, good idea.  I couldn't find any information either, but I didn't spend a lot of time.  I was hoping maybe someone who went through the testing period, might have noticed and could explain what/why this has happened, or if it's a problem with my migration.

[Kbird1]

I don't believe it is a migration issue , the Materials List has changed in X10 there is no longer a Sub-Categories section in Preferences ( so no button in components dbx either) , why I can't answer but you can add "accessories" through the Component DBX still , I had not noticed the Framing section of the Wall Component DBX is missing, so I am thinking bug too.

[Alaskan_Son]

I can't give you an authoritative answer Cliff, but it was my assumption that Chief always looked at those subcategories as nothing more than a way to get user defined items into schedules and that the reason they were deleted is because the functionality was completely replaced by the new Custom Object Information Fields. 

[ambrozac]

Thanks Mick.  In the previous version, adding a Subcategory would give you another choice, in the column list of a schedule.  As an example, if you use the Framing Schedule and add a subcategory to the Category "Framing", that subcategory would show up as another choice in the Framing Schedule column.  I didn't use this feature, in the way intended, but rather as another sorting method, once the Materials List was exported to a spreadsheet.  That's why I liked the drop down box and would not need to manually type in the subcategory each time, so I'm thinking there must be another way to accomplish this.

 

I also noticed one of the tool icons didn't migrate to the Materials List properly, but probably because they added another tool icon to takes its place.  "Display Options" performed different tasks in the previous version, depending on which view it was in.  If in Plan View, "Display Options" would show you the "Layer Display Options", however, when in the Materials List view, "Display Options" would give you the "Materials List Options Display".  Now the Materials List has it's own tool icon, "Materials List Options Display", which has been separated from the Plan View.

[ambrozac]

Thanks Michael.  I bet you're correct.  I've always used this program, in ways it wasn't meant to be, but it normally worked good......until they take it away.  Learned my lesson.  Even though I think this method (use in different ways from the norm) has been somewhat encouraged, beware, you may lose valuable information.  This isn't the first time I've lost something, but it will be the last.

[Alaskan_Son]

38 minutes ago, ambrozac said:

Thanks Michael.  I bet you're correct.  I've always used this program, in ways it wasn't meant to be, but it normally worked good......until they take it away.  Learned my lesson.  Even though I think this method (use in different ways from the norm) has been somewhat encouraged, beware, you may lose valuable information.  This isn't the first time I've lost something, but it will be the last.

 

I'm with you buddy.  There have been a couple other things I was making pretty heavy use of in unconventional ways that Chief took away from us.  Oh well...I guess the best we can do is send in our heavily worded objections if we want them that badly and hope we were convincing enough. 

 

NOTE:  In their defense, I will say this; that Chief gave us replacement methods for both of the instances I alluded to above.  The functionality wasn't completely replaced in either case but they've gotten pretty close both times and I have to say I would take the newer methods over the old both times...but don't tell them I said that........I hope they're not listening

[ambrozac]

Thank you Michael.  I won't tell a soul..

 

 

[Chrisb222]

Change.

 

I was using Components in a non-intended way that got lost when I upgraded to X9. Learned the new way and went on. My first serious computer was a Macintosh SE in 1987 (pic below for those unfamiliar, and/or who have never worked on a 9" monochrome screen). It has always been, and always will be the dilemma of software upgrades: accepting the new, different, and better means losing some of the old, known, and comfortable.

 

[Kbird1]

13 hours ago, ambrozac said:

Thanks Mick.  In the previous version, adding a Subcategory would give you another choice, in the column list of a schedule.  As an example, if you use the Framing Schedule and add a subcategory to the Category "Framing", that subcategory would show up as another choice in the Framing Schedule column.  I didn't use this feature, in the way intended, but rather as another sorting method, once the Materials List was exported to a spreadsheet.  That's why I liked the drop down box and would not need to manually type in the subcategory each time, so I'm thinking there must be another way to accomplish this.

 

I also noticed one of the tool icons didn't migrate to the Materials List properly, but probably because they added another tool icon to takes its place.  "Display Options" performed different tasks in the previous version, depending on which view it was in.  If in Plan View, "Display Options" would show you the "Layer Display Options", however, when in the Materials List view, "Display Options" would give you the "Materials List Options Display".  Now the Materials List has it's own tool icon, "Materials List Options Display", which has been separated from the Plan View.

 

Yes, I had to add the Display Options Icon Back to use while in the ML too.

 

You can still add stuff to the Sub Categories Column, you just have to use the Component DBX to do it , however don't bother filling in the Description Field in the Component DBX as the ML Ignores it and it will still say "accessory" as that is what you add in the Component DBX , though you can change it in the ML. I was told by Support recently that the ML Description Field is Hard Coded which maybe why this happens?, and also why it Currently Calls Every piece of Lumber FIR unlike the Framing Schedule which says Spruce ...(when I use a Spruce Material I made that is , instead of the standard CA Fir Framing.) In the current case where the Component DBX isn't showing Framing for a wall , you still need to move the AC item to Framing with the Drop Down and create the Sub Category Name , so it shows in the ML under Framing.

 

PS. I used a macro to fill in the number of studs in this example

 

M.

 

[ambrozac]

Quote

Learned the new way and went on.

 

I hear you Chris.  Their way, or the highway.  I completely understand.  They can't program per each individual.

 

 

3 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

In the current case where the Component DBX isn't showing Framing for a wall , you still need to move the AC item to Framing with the Drop Down and create the Sub Category Name , so it shows in the ML under Framing.

 

Thanks for the information Mick.  I will try that.

[Kbird1]

1 minute ago, ambrozac said:

 

I hear you Chris.  Their way, or the highway.  I completely understand.  They can't program per each individual.

 

 

 

Thanks for the information Mick.  I will try that.

 

I made a report about the missing Framing in the Component DBX , but haven't heard if it is a Bug  or just the "new way it's done"

 

M.

[Alaskan_Son]

4 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

however don't bother filling in the Description Field in the Component DBX as the ML Ignores it and it will still say "accessory"

 

I may be misunderstanding but I don't have this problem...

[Kbird1]

1 hour ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I may be misunderstanding but I don't have this problem...

 

It maybe another Framing Issue with the use of Older version Files from X9 etc , like the Header Labels Issue with plans brought forward , I'll have to have a play in an X10 only Plan.

 

Are you saying you have a Framing Sub Section in the Component DBX ?  or did you add that F1 ?

 

M.

 

 

 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

1 minute ago, Kbird1 said:

 

It maybe another Framing Issue with the use of Older version Files from X9 etc , like the Header Labels Issue with plans brought forward , I'll have to have a play in an X10 only Plan.

 

Are you saying you have a Framing Sub Section in the Component DBX ?  or did you add that F1 ?

 

M.

 

 

 

 

No, I added that.  I was just referring to the description field problem you mentioned. 

[Kbird1]

Ok , let me have a play in  a Pure OOB CA X10 Plan.... cos apparently that works for you.....

 

M.

 

3 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

No, I added that.  I was just referring to the description field problem you mentioned. 

 

[Kbird1]

It appears to be a X9 plan brought forward issue too , the Comp. DBX , Description field is working if you start in a a Pure OOB CA X10 Template Plan .

 

Not sure why they removed Framing from the Wall's Component DBX though....

[Kbird1]

On 1/17/2018 at 2:58 PM, Kbird1 said:

 

I made a report about the missing Framing in the Component DBX , but haven't heard if it is a Bug  or just the "new way it's done"

 

M.

 

Apparently the removing of Framing from the Component Dialog was on Purpose , but he didn't say WHY . He would like more information from Users as to what functionality we have lost since X9 ( if any ) so He can determine if it is something they need to look into , so please add your comments and I will update him accordingly....

 

I have only noticed the Framing missing , have any other categories disappeared?

 

M.

 

 

[ambrozac]

3 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Apparently the removing of Framing from the Component Dialog was on Purpose , but he didn't say WHY . He would like more information from Users as to what functionality we have lost since X9 ( if any ) so He can determine if it is something they need to look into , so please add your comments and I will update him accordingly....

 

 

Thanks for the update Mick.  Framing is the only Category I noticed missing. 

 

As far as comments on Walls, I prefer to makes changes directly in the Components dbx, which is sent to the Materials List.  Customizing Descriptions, Subcategories, Units, etc., described the way I want, in the Components dbx, is sent to the Materials List.  Now that Framing has been removed, if you delete a Materials List with customized framing descriptions, entered directly in the Materials List, you will need to re-enter all the information when creating a new Materials List.  Having framing in the Components dbx, will eliminate the need to re-enter.

 

My second comment would be:  When you add Wall Types to the Library, they should retain all the information you send (i.e, Subcategories), from the Components dbx, except the Count.  I have no idea why it doesn't, as most items with Component dbx's do, but they do retain their count, in which they should, as they are per each.  Walls are by the Lft.

[Kbird1]

Thanks Cliff I will pass this on to Brian too but you 2nd comment has me slightly confused.... ie

 

" they should retain all the information you send (i.e, Subcategories), from the Components dbx except the Count.  I have no idea why it doesn't, but they do retain their count "

[ambrozac]

I appreciate you doing this Mick.  I'm going to attach two pictures, that will hopefully explain what the comment is about.  I used X9, only because it has framing in the Components dbx, whereas X10 doesn't.  One picture will show how I customized the Units of Measure, Descriptions, and Subcategories, then added to the Library.  The other picture will show how it appears, after selecting it in the Library and placing in Plan View.  All of the customization has been lost.

 

I might also mention, that since Chief has a limit of 10 layers per wall, there are not enough layers to add misc. items such as brick ties, nails for drywall-studs-plates, drywall tape and any other items that may be necessary to finish an exterior wall.  This particular wall that I'm demonstrating has already reached the 10 limit layer.  I know about added accessories, but I think wall layers is the better way to go.

[ambrozac]

 

4 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Thanks Cliff I will pass this on to Brian too but you 2nd comment has me slightly confused.... ie

 

" they should retain all the information you send (i.e, Subcategories), from the Components dbx except the Count.  I have no idea why it doesn't, but they do retain their count "

 

I see how that can be confusing.  I meant to say that Walls do not retain their Count (in the Components dbx), coming from the Library, because they will eventually vary in length.  Whereas, a symbol will retain it's count, because it is a single item, with a count of 1.  The more you add individual symbols, the count increases, but a wall is stretched, instead of adding.  I can see now I'm probably clear as mud.  Sorry for the confusion.  This is actually done correctly in the program, so I shouldn't have mentioned this at all.

[Kbird1]

On 1/19/2018 at 9:19 PM, ambrozac said:

 

 

I see how that can be confusing.  I meant to say that Walls do not retain their Count (in the Components dbx), coming from the Library, because they will eventually vary in length.  Whereas, a symbol will retain it's count, because it is a single item, with a count of 1.  The more you add individual symbols, the count increases, but a wall is stretched, instead of adding.  I can see now I'm probably clear as mud.  Sorry for the confusion.  This is actually done correctly in the program, so I shouldn't have mentioned this at all.

 

Hi Cliff , following up again , I guess I am not explaining things well to Brian , he want's a plan showing the functionality in X9 that was lost in X10, so I am wondering if you can Post the plan you used as an example above and I will forward it too him , as it seems you are Using this feature more than me to Update the ML to your needs.

 

Mick.

 

 

[ambrozac]

Thanks Mick.  The only lost functionality is the one mentioned, from my first post.   The other comments were as to how I think it should work.  I don't think a plan is necessary.  Below are the instructions to replicate:

 

1.)  Open a new plan and draw a wall, any length.

 

2.)  Select the wall and frame it using "Build Framing for Selected Object(s)".

 

3.)  While the wall is still selected, open it's "Components" dbx.

 

4.)  Follow the procedures above for X9 and X10.  In X10, the Framing will not be listed in the "Components" dbx, whereas X9 does list the Framing.

 

My previous comments, about missing subcategories, etc, when added to the Library, have always functioned this way every since walls were allowed to be added to the Library, so it's not a lost functionality.  However, in my opinion, it's a bug, being it doesn't work correctly and is useless (again my opinion) adding it to the Library, if it isn't going to retain the information, that was entered into the "Components" dbx.  As far as I know, everything else (objects) that has a "Components" dbx, will retain this information and also be allowed to edit directly in the Library.  Between you and me, I doubt they want to hear about this, since it doesn't deal with lost functionality.  Sorry I mentioned it.  Please don't spend any more time on this.  You've already done way more than expected and I do absolutely appreciate all you've done.

 

 

 

[Kbird1]

Thanks , I have already shown him how to replicate the issue/loss per your no# 1-4 above quite easily and he has doesn't think any functionality has been lost or can be done other ways ..... it just looked like you had a working Plan whereas currently I don't one already done like your Images , I'll ask him to check the Thread perhaps.

 

Mick,
I understand that the dialogs are different this was on purpose. What I am asking for is what and how were you using this in X9 that you can no longer do in X9?
This will help us determine what if anything we need to do to resolve any lost function.

Thanks