Steve_Nyhof

I am writing this because of the growing frustration I and others are seeing in the forum about the Project Manager There is some length to this thread, but if you read it through carefully you will be on your way to using the Project Manager with less frustration. You may even find that you are more productive and enjoying the organization it offers. From an Architects Perspective There are several videos now available by Chief going over the new Project Manager. And while they cover a number of its features, they do not really give any one clear direction on using it in your daily practice. Most likely because of the large variety of it's users and their specific use cases or industries. I am going to show how I have been using it now for about 6+ weeks, and again like the title says, I am enjoying what it is offering in an easy to access and managed way of working with my files. PM = Project Management CA - Chief Architect I am coming at this as though a new user, meaning, I have no macros working in the background, or other TXT or PDF files that make up a "Project", like you would have a project folder in Explorer or Finder. There are more advanced users here that have a much greater depth of file interaction and linking that the PM I believe it causing some issues to overcome. My use of CA I believe it very simple and similar to the majority of users. First I want to point out something important. Recommend: I would strongly recommend that you continue to draw your plans in X16, and set up X17 into Project Management mode and mess around with it to learn about all the features, and begin to work out a process and system that works for you. Below I am going to show you my system and process. NOTE: When you change into PM mode, your default plan and layout templates are copied into CA system folders. Again, it is making copies of your defaults. When you switch back to Unmanaged mode, (like you work with X16), the New Plans (see tab below) still use these copied defaults. Meaning, if you are like me, I have over the years put my default templates in a folder I manage and open them now and then to update details so the next time I create a New plan or layout, it has the latest updates. MAKE SURE to reconnect your default templates in Unmanaged mode so you see the path in the field. For many years I have stored my plan and layout files in Explorer under specified folders that mean something to how I organize my folders and files. I expect you do too. When you get into the PM, the first thing you will learn is that saving a plan is only saving that plan within the Project. CA is saving your work in their system files. Meaning you cannot access and organize them easily like you have been used to for years. So the question that is arising, is... where is my plan and layout files when I switch back to Unmanaged mode? Well, they are saved in some system folder. The only way to meaningfully access them is to switch back into the PM, and they will show up. (Read Recommend: Above) Below you can see the Project and the .plan under the Project. Before changing the system from Project Management mode to Unmanaged mode, you need to Export your project(s). Export Project is similar to the old Backup Entire Plan option. However, there is a file extension that is now called, .caproj. (Johnson.caproj for Example). You need to rename this extension (after it is exported to disk) to .zip, and then unzip this file like you did with the Backup you would unzip in earlier versions. There you will find your .plan and .layout files. You can then open these files in Unmanaged mode. Located in Explorer Creating A New Project Template Now the simple stuff. My way of operating within the PM... The first thing you need to do is create a New Project Template from your default plan and layout templates. It is in the New Project Template project that I now edit and update when I want to. Meaning, I am no longer editing my default .plan and .layout templates. I am now only editing my .plan and .layout files inside the New Project Templates project. And as you can see, they are right in front of me when I want to open and edit them as I run into something. +1 (See Linking Your .Plan and .Layout Files at the bottom for why this is great) When I want to start on a New Project, I Make a Copy of the New Project Template and Rename the new project to what I want... Rename the new project, the .plan and .layout files... Importing a .plan file from X16 If I am bringing in a .plan from X16, I still make a copy of the New Project Template first. Then Import the files I want from X16 into this new project. Organize your Projects You can add + New Folder (tags) and apply them to your projects to maintain your projects in a meaningful way (like a folder tree). Now you have a similar organization to Explorer or Finder within the PM. +1 The files you see listed above are all current projects I am working on. Meaning, the only projects I have in the PM are current projects. When the projects are completed and I know they will no longer need attention, I Delete them from the PM!! Screechhhh!! Hold on now, not so fast! We do not want to ever delete a project until we know it is safely backed up in Explorer or Finder. Export is the new Save As Here is where the old Save As comes into play. Ok, there is no Save As in X17 because now our .plan and .layout files exist inside Projects that are saved within the CA system. There is a backup system in CA, and it has its place, but because I like to put my files (projects) where I know I can find them, and where I know my backup system can find and back them up to the cloud. You know, like we do now in X16 and every other software we create files with. Today I worked on three projects. After I was done working on each one, I would Export the project to my folders in Explorer where I have stored my files for decades. Saved in Explorer like I have done in the past. Where my cloud service will back it up if it is new or updated. I use Export as a Save As to save my .caproj project files to disk. When working within the PM, Ctrl+S/Cmd+S will save the files within the project and within the CA system. But if you want to continue with the same organization you have used forever, then Exporting the project is how you get that project and it's files into Explorer or Finder. +1 This has now become habit for me, and exporting a project file that already exists will prompt me to overwrite the existing file, and so I click on OK, as I want only the one project and the latest files within that project. The same way I would Save or Save As a file and overwrite the existing file. When I am done working on a project, I will delete the project out of the PM so it remains a manageable system. I do not worry anymore about if that project file exists in my computer folder organization because I have repeatedly exported and saved these project files to disk as I work, also knowing that these files are being backed up in a place I am in control of. +1 Importing An Old Project File If a client should come back after the project file has been deleted from the PM, I just go to my computer folder system, locate the project file (.caproj) and double click on it like I would with any other file to open it's related app. CA opens to the PM and places the project in the Projects view and prompts me to select a file to open. +1 I know a number of users create "Project" folders to store all their files in. I did some of that when there were a number of revisions, or extra files to store, but I am really loving that all my files, revisions and extra files I want to save with the project are all stored with this single Project.caproj file. +1 Linking Your .Plan and .Layout Files I'm not going to get into this much here, other than to say that when you create a New Project Template, you can also setup your .layout with numerous views all linked to your .plan file. I and others have done this in earlier versions with some tricks, but in X17, it is designed with this idea in mind. +1 Depending on your process, sharing projects with a team or syncing your projects to access them from another computer, there is a lot to like about the Project Manager. And if Chief is reading, please put together a process or two that the users can duplicate (step by step) and springboard from. It is not enough to let us know all about the features. The features will present themselves if there is a process in place that users can follow and learn from. I believe this could eliminate a lot of frustration. Bottom line, I'm getting so used to the organization I now have with the Project Manager in X17, that going back to X16 just to make some changes to a completed project does not feel as productive. I was very against the PM in the beginning because I thought I was losing control of my file organization, but I truly believe CA is better now with the PM than without it, and with some additional features it can become amazing!

After having several offline discussions, I remain liking the idea of a backup and/or trigger to auto export the .caproj file. However, there is an issue of how many files would be exported with the file, or if there would be options as to what by default might be part of that export. I do not have answers to how it would all work, but I remain believing that more can be done to automate these files so that how we work with out file systems can continue to be used. There are ways to dig into existing backups and chief software files to gain access to some of these files, and a more advanced tech can if they want work in this way. I am trying to approach this from a common user, but again, there are things that could cause issues, or future issues with the ongoing development of a cloud type system.

Actually, just working each day now in the PM, to do an Export is really no more work than a Save As where I select the folder I want it stored in, and if the file exists, I am asked to overwrite it.. Yes, done. Now I know that this is my latest file, it lives on my hard drive where I want it, and that it will be picked up by my other backup systems and do there thing. Very happy with this. If I do not add an additional comment it may be looked at by Chief as "good enough", so I will end by saying, if there is a way to auto save the Project once saved to disk, then I am down for that. The trigger could be that once all .plan and .layout files are closed, I get a popup listing the Projects that have changed and if I want to overwrite the Projects on disk. If the Project is new and I have not manually Exported it to a place on disk, that in that same exit popup, I am asked where I want to export (save) my Project to on disk.

I will look into this if the next release of X17 does not have something for Projects.

I would be totally down with this if it gave me what I wanted

I have discussed similar things with a Chief friend. Some years ago we talked about the same thing. Dumb CA down for new users, and turn on options in Preferences as you are ready for more. However, we recently talked about how Chief should just come up with a new Version. Keep the current Premier so that there is access for older plans, but using the knowledge of the past and knowing the new technology today, to rethink how things work, like the stairs. I think there are a number of things that are not advancing with Premier because anything new that we want, has to also work with pulling old plans into the new version without breaking them. There is a point where you cut your loses with the old and let is die a peaceful death, and create a new system where those 8,000 requests of ours can be hashed out before the development begins. I wonder what it would be called?

I guess I like the idea of just working with my files like I always have. I don't need to open a file from a zip file and select others when asked, or count on a new method for my files to be backed up. So far I am liking just manually exporting to save the Project to my folder organization on my D: Drive, like I always have with a .plan - which is auto backed up to IDrive and Google Sync, which my other files do and are accessible when I want them, or I can access them on my laptop also. Because I am always Exporting when I am done, I know the latest Project exists in my backup and google sync. Just like my other non CA files. I know where my Projects exist on my hard drive when outside of the PM. If they need to be worked on months later, I go to my folder organization on my D: Drive, like I always have, and double click the Project file to Import it back into the PM. If Chief can automate this through a backup and/or trigger I would love that, and I think others would also. I do share my files with several builders and designers, and it will be easy to right mouse on the Project file in Google drive, because it is automatically there, and share it - again like I would do with any file that is automatically stored and backed up that I can share. To me this is simple, it is how I would describe working with files on a computer if a new user wanted to know how software, folder organization and files work. @Renerabbitt I set up an appointment with you. I will want to dive into this at that time to understand better from your point of view. I may come back here to change my mind.

A bit to unpack here. I think my point was clear above. I was done with the plan. I no longer was working on it, and in my process I do not need it to take up space in the PM. I have plans completed 40 years ago. Why would I want to store that in CA? To answer this question, I love that you as a Architect/Designer find the tools you like that works for your process. 1. Let me know how this goes for you by this time next year. I am currently drawing more than 120 plans a year. Even with using my builder code (like SND) for the Tag to organize my Projects in, it is already growing and just becomes more to look at. The process I am showing in the above post example is very normal to daily working with computer files. I am still using the CA backup system, but just less often as I do not need 14 copies of my Library, etc.. Again, I like this backup for the reason it was designed. 2. This falls under user preference. I do like to put meaningful copied plan files in my Project and do. But I am not making multiple copies for safeguarding my work within the Project, that is what cloud services are for and work very well. I also do not plan to need the CA backup file, and even within a disaster, as I Export my work to disk, all my Projects will be backed up and versioned based on the changes made during that Projects file life. Yes, and the reason I am tooting my horn is because while I am a single user, I am interested in the growth of CA into the support of the team. I know that is CAs goal too, but I am all about making more options available so that every user finds the PM comfortable with the way they like to work with it. I think what I have proposed in a Project Backup and/or Trigger would work amazing for a team and sharing environments. But I know it would also work great for the way I like to operate within the PM as single user.

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