mthd97

The problems come from when you go from a ML and an actual order list. Counting Drywall in real life is nothing like the way ML works it out right now. Timber cutting lists are the same as they need to be rounded up to the nearest foot. I get what Joey is doing, you can make it do an estimate with his 10% wastage factor built in but don't order that exact ammount as the actual wastage factor may only be about 7.5% in reality. In the end to get order lists you need to put in more work than you would for basic estimating. I am interested in finding how good SoftPlan SoftList is in doing the job and what the drawbacks are for using it to build a framing model? Maybe it might do a better job for quantity take off and costing out of the box but may not be good enough for doing an accurate model, who knows? Chief is there for Estimating but not complete for Quantity Surveying and Order lists just quite yet. It does do a good job in auto building framing and editing framing elements and adding framing elements. You can create an order list from ML but not without allot of data extracting and editing.

Joey that's cool you are a hard worker too, CA could use you on the panel for ML since you are a power user of this feature along with Glenn. CA could contract you to do some teaching videos on ML templates and Defaults as you are a teacher as well. What do you think about this Video and can we do things as easy in customizing formulas in the CA ML? https://chieftalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/4106-chief-ml-vs-softplan-sl/

So to those here who are very good and experienced at getting the best out of ML, did you learn how to use ML from just the SSA videos only? I guess, probably not, it would have been a combination of experience and work arounds. Work Shop is a good I idea, yes. The expert work arounders who spend many hours learning them must have hardly any hobbies or suffer from OCD of some sort. So turn the OCD level down in your brain and let the programmers fix up Chief so it is easier to use and is more productive. Some of us here like to delegate the extra work to the program and not spend many hours tweaking a perfect model in order to say, look how good I am. You must have been brought up with no commendation for your good work maybe? Yes you guys are very good at what you do and you help others but dont hinder the development of Chief for the sake of OCD levels that are too high in our brains. Leave our old mate, Lew alone to toss laptops as the poor guy is very ill with cancer and I hope the doctors are helping him to feel abit better. I think us Designers and Estimators must have high level OCD and that is why we do this job as the careless would fail completely. Me I would rather do some tasks by hand with ML rather than create the perfect template only to redo it after each new version comes out?

What does OOB stand for Lew?I agree with Lew about the accuracy as I will do all my calculations manualy as well. As to omition of all tiny Items, thats when estimating comes in. You can always specify these inadequacies on you own disclamer an recomend a manual ckeck but I would think that any reasonable building contractor would do this anyway. We are still asking Chief to give us more control over the ML so we can get a more complete and accurate ML.

Johnny that's cool, I think you and other Architect's will help CA to deliver a better design product for all of us to use and hopefully get the AIA to take it seriously for residential work.

I would like to see Johnny, Wendy & Joe Carrick on the panel as Architects if they are available to do so. As their input on the forum has been very good and I believe that they may be able to help Cheif develop in the right way for the future of residential home design?

Thanks to all of the users who take the time to help others learn at their own cost and time. Some of you guys do allot more than others but it is all good no matter what part you play when it is to help others. I did not mean to forget you fellow Chiefers as I have learned allot from you all. Keep looking for the hidden gems in X7. All the best.

Thanks Bill. Revits basic UI works like Chief in that you can click on an object and a temporary dimension pops up that you can click on and imput the new value and the object moves into position. BTW Chief had this first as Revit is not that old. This thread is not a waste of time as it made some good comparisons with Scott and Son talking about their different apps and problems. Does anyone here know how Revit came about and what it developed from?

Old Timmer has a valid point. I see where he is coming from looking at the old forum I have been around for 12 years on these forums. Take for example our old friend Wendy Welton who came from Revit she is an Architect and was a power user of Chief. Last we heard she was caring for her aged father and I have not seen her post here yet, have any of you seen one? To me thier seems to be a small core group who dominate this forum and where they get thier time from, I don't know. They must have little sleep and not much of a social life and have delegated thier work to CAD technicians or something like that? Me, I am partly retired that is why I have time to post. I want many others users to post so we get a broader view. Back to Chief, my opinion is if you live in the US and do lots of houses use Chief for fast home modeling kind of like a sketch up tool but more specific for houses. Revit users who do houses in the US need this very valuable tool that we call Chief in thier arsenal. Sorry Glenn, OT was not talking out of his Back Side mate, at least from my point of view?

I wonder how our Australian codes compare with your American codes for Timber Framing and Bracing? Do your codes give you resistance values for Sub Floor Srtucture like Basement Structures to do calcs from? If so and if permitted by local authority you could do it yourself and get a trusted Engineer to certify it for you? But I would think carefully about legal matters first or find a Structural Engineer that specialises in that type of construction you mentioned above? I used to do it for one of my Builder Clients and we got it Certifed by a Trusted Structural Engineer in fact the engineer preferred we do it and they will check it And Certify it for us.

Architects on the new Panel may help change the view of the AIA? I suspect the AIA may not like the name Chief Architect as it has the word "Architect" in it? Chief Architect has the right to that name as they fought a battle over the 3d home Architect name with Broderbund in the past for software naming. Some Architects here in Australia are OK with us Building Designers to be Architectural Technicians, but that is another issue people waste time arguing over.

By all means have your say Old Timer I want to hear your view as well.

Yes I heard a whisper about that Forum. Very possible for Autocad to build a one shop CAD stop?

Yes Scott, it compares a big scope of CAD apps. How is the US or up over to us down unders?

Hey Scott, try this mate! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CAD_editors_for_architecture,_engineering_and_construction_(AEC)

Another waste of time discussion on Revit vs Chief. If you care to look at the history of how Revit came about, you might just see it as a marketing ploy to bring people back to Autocad Yes engineers do love Revit and Autocad because that is what they are used to, 2d cad. The engineers have a huge say in the commercial world and many ArchiCAD users have had to learn Revit for their sakes although they prefer ArchiCAD as Architects and is the better tool for them. AP design was a forerunner of Autocad Architectural desktop and then Revit came about after that. Check Wikipedia to find out the facts but in the end they were used to bring people back to Autocad.

Richard, I like that one allot. Don't get me started on Builder clients they are one of the most presumptuous forms of life existing. One of my Architect lecturers told us to watch for Doctor's and Lawyers as well. Yes I am paranoid after dealing with some of these monsters. I think we have had our fair share of bad clients. Richard, has some very good Ideas on handelling legal matters like these. My FIL is not a builder but he still thinks I owe him a bride price or something like that just for marrying his daughter and I guess we all have our monster outlaw story to tell. I don't fight them I don't let them waste my time. Never be desparate enough to accept any design or drawing job that comes along, we are better off doing some other work if it comes to that.

"Yeaha" I did now! If CA made the effort to do accurate 3d BIM import and export they would be hero's too and would introduce their product to a wider range of user's! Hand them the Ball!

Yes if you need very accurate costing and cut lists you still need to export your drawings to subcontractors to get an accurate cost. Chief could go down this line of program development since the cabinet function is fairly well developed.

If the Seattle Sea Hawks trusted Marshawnd Lynch more they may have not lost possession of the ball and won the Super Bowl by letting him rush the ball over the Touch Down line, a tried and tested method of yardage gain. Sometimes you try new things and they come off for you like the Sea Hawks Touch Down with only seconds left in the quater. Then you try it again and this time it gets picked off. That's how it goes sometimes with new things and some intances it works and in others it doesn't.

Funny Cartoon Lew, looks like he has reached MTBIM? True BIM is good as CAD companies have a target to aim for and some are very committed to reaching that Ideal and goal. For example the work put into 2d and 3d CAD translation tools by some companies is very promising and they do not throw it into the "Too Hard Basket" but keep working on it no matter the obstacles. Materials Lists and Schedules are all part of reaching the goal of good accurate and more complete BIM. So in the case of Commercial CAD more collaboration is needed than in low rise residential BIM so the need for intra operative BIM is greater in ArchiCAD, Revit, Bently and AutoCAD as they are predominantly Commercial Building CAD. So the onus is own low rise CAD is to provide a more complete package that can do the job on its own with little collaboration. BTW how good is the 2d dwg translation in X7? we need to be able to import and export CAD files both exploded an non exploded for better editing.

BIM is just a sales pitch in the end to sell some CAD programs. BIM in reality is a language of 3d visual communication of design Ideas. BIM in its computer language is not universal. CG BIM is more correct CG = Computer Generated. There is no such thing as complete BIM in the computer world yet and may never be in the current commercial world? Old fashioned BIM not computer generated is understood by most of us here since we were born in the hand drawing era. D BIM or Dinosaur BIM, I see my friends tree house, I cut down branches and make my own, ugg. My Brain BIM sees it and builds my own version. MT BIM or Mental Telepathy BIM would not need computers or paper, we could transmit our Ideas like on the "The Planet of the Apes" the episode after a nuclear war where mutants developed mental telepathy. Good thread Rod. Ed, very good Ideas for a ML suggestions lists, please do it. Doug, very wise to say we should ask for what we need. Good comments from all here, I learned some good things here. And Lew you need to be more specific about what you actually need as Doug says. I wonder what those who never used pen and paper will say about BIM in the future.

I have been using Chief for take offs for many years by using a spread sheet and inputting my data from my Chief working drawings. Once I have the model drawn I produce automatic framing plans for floors, walls and Ceilings and use polylines to measure area and draw in 2d items that CA does not automatically generate. Of course you have to do some manual work but at least if you do it that way it is accurate and complete and can be used as an order list. In X7 it should be easier with more items being labeled and of course with the use of schedules in from X6. If I was given a job at CA I am sure I could guide the program engineers to be able to get Chief to do the whole job but it would need an MEP modeler that can produce its own schedules. And the roof trusses would need to be engineered along with bracing and other framing elements that need the same as well as getting any concrete beams and floors engineered as well. That being said you can export your drawings into dwg to the engineers who do those above jobs. All this could be possible automatically by X10 with the right management and direction taken and then they would have all the home builders linning to buy it like hot cakes? Never under estimate the power of visual 3d feedback given by Chief. Even a built in checklist to ensure you have not forgotten any building parts could easily be done but you will still need a disclaimer for yourself and the software company because of human error.

You can put a skylight into a roof plane and make one that looks like a window. If I wanted sloped walls I would use another app that does it with ease for a house like that. For a simple house with a feature wall I would use Chief with work arounds as suggested by others here. X8 might have sloped walls in it if we persuaded administration as that is a very common feature in modern Architecture these days especially in the commercial field.

Hi Len the support number for us in Australia is an 02 number or NSW. Log in and go to the CA website and see it under contact us. I hope they can help you mate.