AdrienS_FX Posted September 28 Share Posted September 28 Hi, i was recently trying to use the material list to evaluate how many sq m wall surface i have in a room. Despite the bug that have been discussed in the forum (interior trim/color doesn't appear in room material list ) there's another problem: Placing a window or a door, doesn't change de color or painted surface evaluation. In the remodeling we do right now, this is crucial since all the room have some large fixed windows. The painted surface needs to be calculated regarding the real surface and not the total wall . Is there any way to get the right wall surface for painting ? Thanks in advance Adrien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 @AdrienS_FX Did you log this to CA, and if so did they acknowledge it as a bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtldesigns Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 On 9/28/2024 at 5:57 AM, AdrienS_FX said: painted surface needs to be calculated regarding the real surface Not trying to be mean, but why do you need to the exact surface amount? Surely you don't order paint with this hard number as is, and not round up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 On 9/28/2024 at 6:57 AM, AdrienS_FX said: Hi, i was recently trying to use the material list to evaluate how many sq m wall surface i have in a room. Despite the bug that have been discussed in the forum (interior trim/color doesn't appear in room material list ) there's another problem: Placing a window or a door, doesn't change de color or painted surface evaluation. In the remodeling we do right now, this is crucial since all the room have some large fixed windows. The painted surface needs to be calculated regarding the real surface and not the total wall . Is there any way to get the right wall surface for painting ? Thanks in advance Adrien I put in quite a bit of work to make a materials list like this happen in CA. I believe what you are looking for is somewhat possible. As far as it being dynamic with different window sizes, I left an example for you to draw your own conclusions from. NOTE: this is from a house in progress and I have not vetted this list for errors / omissions yet. One that stands out: House wrap should be in the siding category, so there is some materials in a specific wall(s) that aren't correctly assigned yet. I am not exactly sure what your end goal is after receiving the exact painted surface quantity; surface area amount to invoice the customer, qty of paint to order, time to apply...?? If it is amount of paint to apply, I agree with @mtldesigns. Exact sqft numbers never seem to be exact qty of paint with all the different variables in play. Even the amount of sqft coverage/gal is a guess from coat to coat. If it is to save money by ordering less paint, sometimes it is less cost to order a 5gal pail than 4x 1gal cans ( 5 gal may be cheaper than 4 gal). Anyhow, have a look if this is of interest. If it is, I can give you the details how to go about achieving this. If you are looking for a quick way to subtract the window area from the wall area, CA X16 will let you put a column in a window schedule for area and you can total at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 12 Share Posted October 12 @ValleyGuy What did you do to achieve this second count column result? I am actually looking to see if I can get it (wall surface area without opening area) into a schedule for the room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said: @ValleyGuy What did you do to achieve this second count column result? I am actually looking to see if I can get it (wall surface area without opening area) into a schedule for the room I'm looking for a way to easily schedule wall surface area with and with out openings too - more for exterior purposes (fire code, energy code,...). I'm sure that it's possible with macros, I'm just not experienced enough with macros. I haven't found an alternative yet. As for the second column results, in a nutshell: make a wall with a layer (inside or outside of framing) that you want the sqft of, then make sure that it is included in the components area with the appropriate count macro selected. I can't remember, but you may need to check that your material from the library has the proper material calculations, OPEN OBJECT -> MATERIALS LIST -> Specifications (area, Lft, etc). I went a little overboard being specific with stuff - my list broke down things easily for ordering. If you only wanted the exterior studs for the second floor, the second coat of ceiling paint on the first floor, or green board for the basement laundry room only, it was all separated. I actually aborted this materials list as an added value mission. It is way too much effort and really under appreciated. Hopefully some good will come out of the effort and a solution to scheduling wall area will be made. Let me know if you find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 13 hours ago, ValleyGuy said: I'm looking for a way to easily schedule wall surface area with and with out openings too - more for exterior purposes (fire code, energy code,...). I'm sure that it's possible with macros, I'm just not experienced enough with macros If this is for limiting distances and unprotected openings, the wall does not include the rim joist, and does not delineate below grade. As such I use a pline on the elevation, manually drawn. and then I have a macro which adds up the windows, which is rather convoluted. If CA would give us the ability to have a macro use a schedule total, it would be a lot simpler. I put in a suggestion a few months back But thanks for what you have done so far, I will take a look. I have not spent much time in material lists. I just ran one on a project I just did and trying to figure out what the numbers and if they add up. and if it is smart enough to know for instance that 108 drywall is for a 109.125 room, without adding additional sheets for the 1.125" extra inch. (and I can hear the comments already, drywallers use 54" drywall by 8',9' 10',12', and they optimize for orientation/placement....this is mostly for basements where you cannot get those sizes down the stairs. plus I want to see what the calculation accounts for) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 your count 2 is smaller because it looks to have the area reduced by the window size. Did you then just change the formula to deduct the manually entered window area on that wall, for each wall? Or put another way, was it all manual, or if you changed a window size did it just then calculate correctly without having to do anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 so if I change drywall from count to linear, it gives me the surface areas of the walls, excluding doors and windows, so that seems to work. Its just not by room as it is for both sides of the wall and one side of a wall could go across multiple rooms. One could break it up, but it still has it as both sides of a wall I do not see a way to get it by room for the ML. Even if one creates material list by room, it only gives you the drywall for the ceiling, not the walls. According to the doc, anything that has its center in the room will be counted, so one could I suppose add an object and then do the math, or add crown molding and use it to do the math. looks like too much work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 well, I've quit trying and left it as wall area without reducing for openings, and put it in a schedule. Interesting that the room properties can actually have two different ceiling heights, but if one uses the ceiling elevation, there is only one, so I used that one. although the stairwell is probably not correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 12 hours ago, SHCanada2 said: If this is for limiting distances and unprotected openings, the wall does not include the rim joist, and does not delineate below grade. As such I use a pline on the elevation, manually drawn. and then I have a macro which adds up the windows, which is rather convoluted. If CA would give us the ability to have a macro use a schedule total, it would be a lot simpler. I put in a suggestion a few months back Yes, I currently take an elevation of each wall and use see-though coloured CAD boxes with area macros for exterior walls an openings. I found it easier to provide the sizes and let whoever do the math that's required (siding take off, limiting distances, percentages,...) fewer shots taken at the messenger. 12 hours ago, SHCanada2 said: your count 2 is smaller because it looks to have the area reduced by the window size. Did you then just change the formula to deduct the manually entered window area on that wall, for each wall? Or put another way, was it all manual, or if you changed a window size did it just then calculate correctly without having to do anything? Everything on the material list is dynamic driven by the component, no formula manipulation on my part. I'm not sure if this will further your cause, but with a little effort, one is able to accomplish what @AdrienS_FX was after in the OP above - use the material list to show the actual painted surface area of each wall. It is fully dynamic in X16 and seems to be fairly accurate. I didn't do any calculations to any fractions of the inch by taking the walls and ceiling layers out. It's late and I have to get some sleep for the big Thanksgiving turkey dinner tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 17 hours ago, SHCanada2 said: well, I've quit trying and left it as wall area without reducing for openings, and put it in a schedule. Interesting that the room properties can actually have two different ceiling heights, but if one uses the ceiling elevation, there is only one, so I used that one. although the stairwell is probably not correct I don't know how to put any material list info into a nice neat schedule, but this is the best that I can come up with.... It would be great if Chief could come up with a better / easier system to provide the wall information into the schedules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 happy thanksgiving, we had the classic turkey and pumpkin pie yesterday. I noticed the same thing about the thermal area...only good for exterior walls. I'll take a closer look, I did notice the wall areas are backwards between the rooms for the common wall spanning 2 rooms. i.e, W01 and W06 should have more wall area for the bedroom, where above you have them having more area for the bath/closet. And I do not see how you are assigning only one side of the wall to the room (the category/subcategory above). but I will dive into it some more. I see where you do it now....typing in the wall label differently for each one of the drywall in each unique wall. All in all a very creative method. ...a lot of re-work though if one had to change walls around later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValleyGuy Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said: happy thanksgiving, we had the classic turkey and pumpkin pie yesterday. I noticed the same thing about the thermal area...only good for exterior walls. I'll take a closer look, I did notice the wall areas are backwards between the rooms for the common wall spanning 2 rooms. i.e, W01 and W06 should have more wall area for the bedroom, where above you have them having more area for the bath/closet. And I do not see how you are assigning only one side of the wall to the room (the category/subcategory above). but I will dive into it some more. I see where you do it now....typing in the wall label differently for each one of the drywall in each unique wall. All in all a very creative method. ...a lot of re-work though if one had to change walls around later. Happy Thanksgiving to you too, .... turkey, pumpkin pie and a good afternoon nap never get old eh? You are correct about the numbers, I made a boo boo on the interior wall designations and had them reversed. That's how easy it is to mess this up - a better system with a lot fewer manual entries would be much more superior and safer if any revisions had to be made. I put some numbers on a text graph to show the calculations for the wall sides, and they seem very close. I had to add in the wall area of the bath/closet wall (W05) butting into W06/W08 and W01/W13 walls (4.5"w X 118 1/8"h = 3.69 sqft). I'm not exactly sure what the program uses for the windows and doors, I just used the numbers from the window/door schedule. I would think that it is definitely within my acceptable level of accuracy for doing any take-offs. I did notice something else as well, the CA help files may need a little amendment too. The ID categories didn't actually follow the order as per their list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHCanada2 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 its too bad the wall coverings one can assign in the room dbx do not reduce its area with windows and doors (I tested it, it does not). Then it would be very easy... in my test room of 10'x6' it just always sits at 284 sq ft regardless of doors added to the wall room object properties: wall_coverings --------------------------------------- size = 1 --------------------------------------------------------------- Collection [0] ---------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- NVPublisher area ----------------------------------------- 284.385601 sq ft ------------------------------------------------------- Measurement 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now