Automatically updating detail callouts - incomplete workaround, feasible?

[AvoyeDesign]

I've been exploring this workaround that was inspired by Joe Carrick's post below, but I'm not sure if I like it or not. I just wanted to post the video for feedback and to see if any of you have better ideas or want to take off running with this. I haven't explored this much in X15 so there may be a lot better implementations of what I am trying over there.

 

 

 

 

[SHCanada2]

interesting concept. I try and stay away from overlaying on layout, as I will move the layout boxes around depending on text annotations and how they fit.

 

To me we need either one of two things, Joe's method X,Y coordinates of layout boxes, or an incrementing callout number.

 

I personally stay away from live details as one cannot see the little things clearly like bolts, ice & water shield, WRB.

 

So I have a bunch of CAD details in my template plan with the predermined names 

 

and these get passed through to the label for the layout so I never have to type them

 

then on the plan, I link the callout to the detail.

 

The problem is the callout number. There is no way to know if my last callout number was 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. So when I put a new callout on the plan, I have to guess. Then when I look at the layout I realized I guessed right or I guessed wrong and I go change it. Of course I could also go look first. But it does seem like the program should be able to do this on its own

 

[Renerabbitt]

6 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

The problem is the callout number.

 

23 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

possible with the NVPs

You both responded to my suggestion about combining notes and callouts, and this is EXACTLY something it would be used for...if callouts and notes were one tool, we would have a callout schedule that could be reordered and used for things such as a detail schedule or simply for detail enumeration
Rod this is in my Pro Plan...it was tedious to setup but works really well and takes no maintenence once established.
 

[AvoyeDesign]

23 hours ago, Joe_Carrick said:

I'm sorry Rod, what you show in your video is IMO a total kludge and doesn't provide the kind of automation that's possible with the NVPs I've been requesting along with a few well designed macros.

I think I put a fairly healthy disclaimer to that effect in both my post and the video, but thanks for being an ass anyway. 

[AvoyeDesign]

45 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

 

You both responded to my suggestion about combining notes and callouts, and this is EXACTLY something it would be used for...if callouts and notes were one tool, we would have a callout schedule that could be reordered and used for things such as a detail schedule or simply for detail enumeration
Rod this is in my Pro Plan...it was tedious to setup but works really well and takes no maintenence once established.
 

 

I'm curious about your setup, and also got thinking about something myself. I made a suggestion the other day that we need to be able to add cad and cad blocks to custom schedules, and I think it would be cool if the schedule would show the cad block like it does for roof planes, windows and doors, trusses, etc. Then a detail sheet could be just a schedule basically. 

 

Edit: Getting a cad block to show in a schedule at the proper scale would be a nightmare.

[SHCanada2]

On 7/8/2023 at 7:17 PM, Renerabbitt said:

have a callout schedule that could be reordered and used for things such as a detail schedule or simply for detail enumeration

I see now. Although your snippet above changes the numbering, it is still looks like a bit of a pain as you have to have the layout open to "watch" the numbers to make sure they are incremental, and the schedule open to re-order them?

[Renerabbitt]

On 7/9/2023 at 10:28 PM, SHCanada2 said:

I see now. Although your snippet above changes the numbering, it is still looks like a bit of a pain as you have to have the layout open to "watch" the numbers to make sure they are incremental, and the schedule open to re-order them?

You only need the schedule, layout was open just to show that it works 

[SHCanada2]

8 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

You only need the schedule, layout was open just to show that it works 

yes but I think you need to "know" what is the first detail in the layout, and the second detail...

 

For instance, your BWP WSW actual detail is on the left in your layout and it is labelled 3. I presume, by looking at the layout one thinks, "this should be number 1 not 3, so I will go to the schedule and set it to 1". And then you go to the schedule and move it.

 

or is it a different workflow?

 

 

[Joe_Carrick]

This is why I don't like the Schedule method.  The Detail Callouts should be based on their position on the Layout Page automatically.  Then any Plan Callouts linked to the view sent to Layout will automatically be correct.

 

Detail Callouts should be based on their position on the Layout Page & Plan Callouts should always be correct.

[Renerabbitt]

1 hour ago, SHCanada2 said:

yes but I think you need to "know" what is the first detail in the layout, and the second detail...

 

For instance, your BWP WSW actual detail is on the left in your layout and it is labelled 3. I presume, by looking at the layout one thinks, "this should be number 1 not 3, so I will go to the schedule and set it to 1". And then you go to the schedule and move it.

 

or is it a different workflow?

 

 

Yes you are right

 

1 hour ago, Joe_Carrick said:

This is why I don't like the Schedule method.  The Detail Callouts should be based on their position on the Layout Page automatically.  Then any Plan Callouts linked to the view sent to Layout will automatically be correct.

 

Detail Callouts should be based on their position on the Layout Page & Plan Callouts should always be correct.

Yes I agree 90% (There are instances when you DO NOT want automatic numbering and may want to skip a number)
I also still just want one Note/Callout Tool With schedules for both Layout and Plan for a variety of uses  We both know this

[Joe_Carrick]

15 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

I also still just want one Note/Callout Tool With schedules for both Layout and Plan for a variety of uses

Notes are not the same as Callouts so:

• I want separate tools.
• A combination tool could be useful as well.
• I want separate defaults for Callouts in Plan vs Layout.

Layout Box Labels have a Callout Option.  This is the primary use for Callouts in Layout.

Callouts (Stand Alone and Camera) in Plan are used to reference the Views sent to Layout.

 

Notes are typically used to minimize the text on a Plan View.  They provide a reference to the Note Schedule(s).

 

That said, I prefer actual text in my CAD Details to minimize contractors & subs from having to search for the information.  

I've seen too many ConDocs with Notes incorrectly cross referenced.

[Renerabbitt]

7 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

Notes are not the same as Callouts so:

• I want separate tools.
• A combination tool could be useful as well.
• I want separate defaults for Callouts in Plan vs Layout.

Layout Box Labels have a Callout Option.  This is the primary use for Callouts in Layout.

Callouts (Stand Alone and Camera) in Plan are used to reference the Views sent to Layout.

 

Notes are typically used to minimize the text on a Plan View.  They provide a reference to the Note Schedule(s).

 

That said, I prefer actual text in my CAD Details to minimize contractors & subs from having to search for the information.  

I've seen too many ConDocs with Notes incorrectly cross referenced.

Ill say this to my dying day...there is no reason not to have a single tool that can do everything that both tools can do...its up to the end user to make a division in their brain for the use of the tool...lets not think of it as the note or callout tool...think of it as the annotation tool.
For all I care, leave it as the note and callout tool but give both tools the complete capabilities of the other tool

[SHCanada2]

10 minutes ago, Joe_Carrick said:

I prefer actual text in my CAD Details to minimize contractors & subs from having to search for the information

I do lots of recreation from plans, and I can say the move to notes on plans from the old text everywhere probably adds 20% more time to figure things out. The worst is companies that have note schedules with notes that arent actually on the plan

[Renerabbitt]

6 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

I do lots of recreation from plans, and I can say the move to notes on plans from the old text everywhere probably adds 20% more time to figure things out. The worst is companies that have note schedules with notes that arent actually on the plan

Keep in mind you can always type note text into the above and below line and it can report to schedule and has an OIP..making it pretty dang impressive for certain uses such as creating a schedule that never makes it to your condocs but instead is a list of all notes on your plan so that you can update any of them from the schedule by clicking on open row object or simply locating them.
If we ever get word wrap, I would use it exclusively