Vertical Cabinet Pulls

[DzinEye]

1 minute ago, robdyck said:

I  actually think the cabinet dbx could use a separate 'hardware' tab. That's what I'd want if I did cabinet plans regularly.

I almost suggested the same, but really the Doors/Drawers panel is essentially just that... 

[Alaskan_Son]

11 hours ago, DzinEye said:

Yes, that is one way.  I was suggesting some kind of obvious checkbox as another... where the whole 3D image of the cabinet highlights when you're modifying defaults for the entire cabinet, and when you select an individual door/drawer then just that door/drawer highlights... just as it works now in the Front/Sides/Back panel. 

 

Right off the bat we have a major problem.  There's currently nothing in that dialog that allows for selection of all face items even with the face items dropdown 

 

Anyway, if you really want to see these changes then you'll need to suggest it.  My suggestion to you would still be to show how this might look.  Even a rough sketch.  Everything you've talked about sound nice but as soon as you try to put it all in a single tab I suspect you'll start to see some of the challenges.  I still like it exactly as it is.  Very easy and intuitive to set up generic stuff and just use the deeper and more powerful controls for custom stuff. 

[MarkMc]

17 hours ago, robdyck said:

I  actually think the cabinet dbx could use a separate 'hardware' tab. That's what I'd want if I did cabinet plans regularly.

Maybe, maybe not. Imagine that you needed to open a dbx for every door and every window and make multiple changes-not fun.

 

For cabinets I find it best to avoid needing to go in to the dbx as much as possible. To avoid it I use a combination of dynamic defaults; replace from library for cabinet config, for parts drag items like hardware, doors etc onto the cabinet in 3D and set as default;...

....but better still is the new style palette feature. Want a 4 drawer cabinet with hardware set at different depths, a 3 drawer with framed lower drawers, a double oven instead of a single and microwave-just a single click. I've begun converting a lot of the cabinets I kept in the library to style palettes. The great thing about those is that you can edit the specs to be copied while still in the library. I set them to only copy face items to start with but open and add items to copy at will though. Combined with what I mentioned above it's a game changer.

[DzinEye]

10 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

Right off the bat we have a major problem.  There's currently nothing in that dialog that allows for selection of all face items even with the face items dropdown 

 

Anyway, if you really want to see these changes then you'll need to suggest it.  My suggestion to you would still be to show how this might look.  Even a rough sketch.  Everything you've talked about sound nice but as soon as you try to put it all in a single tab I suspect you'll start to see some of the challenges.  I still like it exactly as it is.  Very easy and intuitive to set up generic stuff and just use the deeper and more powerful controls for custom stuff. 

Hmm... I don't think you're quite following what I'm suggesting?... or... I'm not following yours.

My suggestion has nothing to do with the 'face items' dropdown.  That is on the Front/Sides/Back panel of the DBX.

I'm suggesting that the Doors/Drawers panel, which is clearly laid out for controlling the doors/drawers hardware be able to control not just defaults for the entire cabinet, but also for individual doors and drawers. The Doors/Drawers panel of the DBX has the same 3D view pane as the Front/Sides/Back panel, but currently clicking on that 3D pane in the Doors/Drawers panel switches one over to the Front/Sides/Back DBX panel.  I would like to stay in the Doors/Drawers panel when the 3D pane is clicked on, which would then highlight an individual door or drawer and allow modifications to that individual door/drawer using the same Door/Drawers DBX control panel as it is currently laid out.  

As you suggest, graphics would be greatly beneficial in pursuing this change if I were to do so.  At this point now that I've learned it, the benefit of the change is not so much to me, but to the future users of Chief.  Robert and I both agreed that once one knows where to look to do the customizing it's not that big of a deal... you just learn it, but I'm a tireless proponent of making software more intuitive.   It's crystal clear to me that if the GUI were better, perhaps similar to my suggestion, this would not have come up as a question here in the forum by a long-time Chief user.  Now that I've been following the forum regularly, I've seen a number of Chief features/abilities etc.,  that have eluded even longtime Chief users.  That is of course inevitable to some extent,  building a complex software like Chief... it's very much like a growing city with all the challenges of infrastructure being tacked onto and patched to keep up with growth.  However when I see things even long-time users have missed it usually signals that there is something unclear/non-intuitive to the GUI.  The more intuitive the GUI the more popular the software will be because of a far shorter/smoother learning curve. 

 

[Alaskan_Son]

9 minutes ago, DzinEye said:

Hmm... I don't think you're quite following what I'm suggesting?... or... I'm not following yours.

My suggestion has nothing to do with the 'face items' dropdown.  That is on the Front/Sides/Back panel of the DBX

To me this is just evidence of how much more complex this is than it seems on the surface.  For example:

1.  You’ve just hypothetically created the ONLY dialog in Chief that actually REQUIRES interaction with the preview and with no textual feedback as to what the selected item is.  Not helping the intuitive case if you ask me.

2.  You’re giving no clear way of changing the basic default for the entire unit.  Again, not very intuitive.  
 

I think my suggested solution of 2 data entry fields would help with the latter, but it becomes super messy having setting for doors and drawers available when you could be selecting one, the other, or neither.  In addition, you would essentially be required to de-select items to make certain changes as well.  I just think you’re asking for trouble.  

[DzinEye]

4 hours ago, MarkMc said:

For cabinets I find it best to avoid needing to go in to the dbx as much as possible. To avoid it I use a combination of dynamic defaults; replace from library for cabinet config, for parts drag items like hardware, doors etc onto the cabinet in 3D and set as default;...

....but better still is the new style palette feature. Want a 4 drawer cabinet with hardware set at different depths, a 3 drawer with framed lower drawers, a double oven instead of a single and microwave-just a single click. I've begun converting a lot of the cabinets I kept in the library to style palettes.

Great to hear that the new style palettes feature has become so valuable in your workflow! 
There are a lot of cabinet specialty folks on here that could especially benefit from your experience with this feature.
I suppose that makes sense for you specializing in certain cabinet lines/types and clients.
It's good to hear from you guys who are using it and how you're using it.  I'll have to work up to it... it's an upfront time investment that can pay off later, but one needs to see how it'll pay off to feel comfortable with the upfront time allotment.

[DzinEye]

10 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

To me this is just evidence of how much more complex this is than it seems on the surface.  For example:

1.  You’ve just hypothetically created the ONLY dialog in Chief that actually REQUIRES interaction with the preview and with no textual feedback as to what the selected item is.  Not helping the intuitive case if you ask me.

2.  You’re giving no clear way of changing the basic default for the entire unit.  Again, not very intuitive.  
 

I think my suggested solution of 2 data entry fields would help with the latter, but it becomes super messy having setting for doors and drawers available when you could be selecting one, the other, or neither.  In addition, you would essentially be required to de-select items to make certain changes as well.  I just think you’re asking for trouble.  

Funny...I almost always use clicking on the preview image ...it came as 2nd nature to me.  I didn't read somewhere that I could, nor ask anyone on the Forum, so I don't think it's that big of a deal, but you do have a point that it would be the only thing that requires interaction with the preview.   Remember this is not actually a 'suggestion' yet.   Visual interaction is the way most software has gone over the years hasn't it... from typed codes, to prompts to clickable thingys.  Visual works most intuitively.  Whatever though... use the same interface as the Front/Sides/Back panel.  All I'm just suggesting that default and custom hardware manipulation could all be handled in the same panel without brain breaking gymnastics.