Texture mapping offset and "Global Symbol Map" option

[AlvarD]

I have a texture which I would like to have start at the same offset of 0,0 on every object that I apply the texture to, and from what I see in the Chief Manual  "Check Global Symbol Mapping to map the texture using the same origin on all objects. When unchecked, the origin is defined individually for each object". this should be the case if I have the Global Symbol Mapping in the Material DBX unchecked, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 

 

I defined a texture of a paver block, which when applied to a 4" wide polyline solid (the one on the left in the pic below) looks the way I want it. The problem is that if I apply it to another polyline solid, depending on where the origin of the polyline solid is, the application of the pattern is applied as if "Global Symbol Mapping" is checked. Checking or unchecking the Global Symbol Mapping button doesn't change anything.   

 

Plan is attached. 

 

 

Thanks,

Alvar

Chieftalk global symbol map bug.zip

[TheKitchenAbode]

I've never actually played with that feature. I often need to adjust the pattern and texture when doing tile layout work. What I do, say for a bath tub, is to create three copies of the texture, left end wall, back wall and right end wall. I then apply these to the appropriate wall material region and then adjust each one individually.

 

The other thing I have noticed is that depending upon the type of object the texture is being applied to is that it's default orientation is determined by the objects width and height. For example, on a cabinet partition and apply a wood grain texture. The texture automatically orientates to the greater dimension, if you resize the partition then the wood grain will automatically flip if the other dimension exceeds the previous one.

[AlvarD]

Graham, the method you describe of copying the texture would certainly work, but it would be great if we didn't have to resort to that. From the description it seems like the Global Symbol Mapping option is there to address just that scenario. Perhaps it's a bug? Or I'm just misinterpreting the Global Mapping option...

[TheKitchenAbode]

6 minutes ago, AlvarD said:

Graham, the method you describe of copying the texture would certainly work, but it would be great if we didn't have to resort to that. From the description it seems like the Global Symbol Mapping option is there to address just that scenario. Perhaps it's a bug? Or I'm just misinterpreting the Global Mapping option...

 Totally agree. I'm just playing with this now, don't see any difference with it checked or unchecked. Really doesn't say much about it in the reference manual. However, I think this is only applicable to "Symbols" not any other object types. Just reading page 963 in the reference manual, talks about Symbol Origin.

[AlvarD]

Yeah, I think you are right. Sounds like this one falls under the "request for new feature" category... 

[TheKitchenAbode]

6 minutes ago, AlvarD said:

Yeah, I think you are right. Sounds like this one falls under the "request for new feature" category... 

 

Absolutely - From my experience controlling the texture or pattern on an object is a mess, it's just a guessing game as you play with the offsets trying to get an exact position. For tile work I have to place a cad line in elevation to show where I want the grout line, then start plugging in offsets until the texture matches the cad line, might take 5 or more entries to get it right.

[TheKitchenAbode]

Just to make matters more frustrating you have to then do this again if you want the Pattern to match the Texture.

[AlvarD]

I submitted a suggestion on this to the "Suggestions" thread. Let's hope they are listening!! 

[Kbird1]

AFAIAA from playing around with this in the past , mostly with Tile like Graham, Textures and Patterns both reference the Grid Coordinates of 0,0 not the 0,0,0 Origin of the Object or Symbol in question , most likely done like this so everything in the "CA Universe" will Line up when needed but it causes issues as you've both pointed out.

 

Notice how all the paver joints line up.... even though  each paver strip is in a different position in the "Universe" , the yellow pyramid is at 0.0

 

 

[AlvarD]

7 hours ago, solver said:

Adjusting offsets on multiple objects using a single material.

 

Watch on YouTube: http://youtu.be/SWPWsVBx4N4?hd=1

 

Eric, if I could get it to work the way you show in your video, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, when I try doing exactly what you did (I tried it just like you did, making a copy of the Cedar Tongue & Grove and applying it to different walls), it doesn't work the same. For me, when I use the "Adjust Material Definition" on one of the walls to change the offset of the texture, it changes it for all the walls that have it. This is as I would've expected, since I'm changing the material definition, which is supposed to be global.

 

Could there be some other default/preference setting in X10 that perhaps can account for the difference in behavior between your video  and what I'm seeing? 

 

Thanks,

Alvar

[Ridge_Runner]

12 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

Notice how all the paver joints line up.... even though  each paver strip is in a different position in the "Universe" , the yellow pyramid is at 0.0

Nice graphic, Mick. Shows the way CA "thinks," at least for pavers and tile.

[AlvarD]

13 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

AFAIAA from playing around with this in the past , mostly with Tile like Graham, Textures and Patterns both reference the Grid Coordinates of 0,0 not the 0,0,0 Origin of the Object or Symbol in question , most likely done like this so everything in the "CA Universe" will Line up when needed but it causes issues as you've both pointed out.

 

Notice how all the paver joints line up.... even though  each paver strip is in a different position in the "Universe" , the yellow pyramid is at 0.0

 

Thanks Mick! Indeed the default of Textures and Patterns referencing the global Grid coordinate system of 0,0 make a lot of sense. It would be nice, if there was an OPTION, for things other than Symbols since they seem to be covered by the Global Symbol Mapping option, to control the texture offsets individually on each object. 

[AlvarD]

6 hours ago, AlvarD said:

 

Eric, if I could get it to work the way you show in your video, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, when I try doing exactly what you did (I tried it just like you did, making a copy of the Cedar Tongue & Grove and applying it to different walls), it doesn't work the same. For me, when I use the "Adjust Material Definition" on one of the walls to change the offset of the texture, it changes it for all the walls that have it. This is as I would've expected, since I'm changing the material definition, which is supposed to be global.

 

Could there be some other default/preference setting in X10 that perhaps can account for the difference in behavior between your video  and what I'm seeing? 

 

Thanks,

Alvar

 

I guess this, from the X10 reference manual, makes it pretty clear that different material offsets for different objects aren't currently supported, as it's a property of the material, rather than the Object, so different materials are needed to have different origins of a texture on different objects. 

 

 

Seems like a very basic CA program structure issue, so I doubt that they would entertain changing it, but I started a "Suggestion" thread in hopes they may consider it.

 

-Alvar

[Kbird1]

6 hours ago, AlvarD said:

 

Eric, if I could get it to work the way you show in your video, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, when I try doing exactly what you did (I tried it just like you did, making a copy of the Cedar Tongue & Grove and applying it to different walls), it doesn't work the same. For me, when I use the "Adjust Material Definition" on one of the walls to change the offset of the texture, it changes it for all the walls that have it. This is as I would've expected, since I'm changing the material definition, which is supposed to be global.

 

Could there be some other default/preference setting in X10 that perhaps can account for the difference in behavior between your video  and what I'm seeing? 

 

Thanks,

Alvar

 

Had a Quick Play and if you do it EXACTLY in the Order Eric does it works  ie :

 

Wall 1>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 2>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 3>paint siding>change material offset

 

If you paint ALL 3 walls with new siding then change the Offset on 1 Wall they All Change as All 3 are still set at the "Default Offset" for that Material ie it works similar to other CA Objects and Items in that Defaults are important...and Global...

 

Changing the Offset on each Wall as it is placed (must) cause CA to "see" it as a Different Material as not All Settings are the same, ie it has a similar effect to renaming the material to xxx_1 or xxx_2 or xxx_3.

 

 

[TheKitchenAbode]

6 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Had a Quick Play and if you do it EXACTLY in the Order Eric does it works  ie :

 

Wall 1>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 2>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 3>paint siding>change material offset

 

If you paint ALL 3 walls with new siding then change the Offset on 1 Wall they All Change as All 3 are still set at the "Default Offset" for that Material ie it works similar to other CA Objects and Items in that Defaults are important...and Global...

 

Changing the Offset on each Wall as it is placed (must) cause CA to "see" it as a Different Material as not All Settings are the same, ie it has a similar effect to renaming the material to xxx_1 or xxx_2 or xxx_3.

 

 

 Agree. After doing this if you check the plan material list you will have say three materials with exactly the same name, one for each. No way to tell which belongs to what item. If CA is going to automatically create these they should name them with a suffix such as 1, 2, 3 so they can be individually identified.

[AlvarD]

16 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Had a Quick Play and if you do it EXACTLY in the Order Eric does it works  ie :

 

Wall 1>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 2>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 3>paint siding>change material offset

 

If you paint ALL 3 walls with new siding then change the Offset on 1 Wall they All Change as All 3 are still set at the "Default Offset" for that Material ie it works similar to other CA Objects and Items in that Defaults are important...and Global...

 

Changing the Offset on each Wall as it is placed (must) cause CA to "see" it as a Different Material as not All Settings are the same, ie it has a similar effect to renaming the material to xxx_1 or xxx_2 or xxx_3.

 

I see. That was the difference. I was painting them all first and then trying to change it.  I guess having CA automatically create the other materials when it detects a change in one helps a bit, but like Graham said, it's hard to tell the different materials as they all have the same name... 

[TheKitchenAbode]

1 minute ago, AlvarD said:

 

I see. That was the difference. I was painting them all first and then trying to change it.  I guess having CA automatically create the other materials when it detects a change in one helps a bit, but like Graham said, it's hard to tell the different materials as they all have the same name... 

 

I have had problems in the past when the same material name is duplicated in the plan material list, it can cause problems when using the eyedropper tool. It sees the material you want to paint as already having the same name and it does not apply the picked material.

[AlvarD]

5 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

I have had problems in the past when the same material name is duplicated in the plan material list, it can cause problems when using the eyedropper tool. It sees the material you want to paint as already having the same name and it does not apply the picked material.

 

To me seeing many materials with the same name in the Plan list has always been very confusing, and I think I've had the same problem with applying materials that you mentioned.  I'l prefer it if Chief required them to always have unique names.