Controlling Roof Pitch when intersecting walls are both "Full Gable"

[CareySystems]

I apologize if this question is answered in another location.  I have tried to find the answer in the forums and the Chief Architect documentation.  My question seems so easy and as if it would be so common, I am surprised I am unable to find the answer.  Nevertheless, I appreciate any help you could offer!

 

The home features a false reverse gable on the front façade that intersects with a full gable right side wall.  As such, there is a roof valley that intersects at the corner.  I am trying to understand how to control the roof pitch for both the right side false reverse gable on the front of the house as well as for the main roof on the right side of the false reverse gable.  I can fix half of the problem by setting the Chief Architect default roof pitch to 12:12.  This makes the false reverse gable have the correct 12:12 pitch (as shown in the attached screenshot).  However, it also forces the right side main roof to a 12:12 pitch because that roof has no real "wall" that it sits on that is not a full gable wall.  I have tried to use the "Roof Baselines" functionality to edit the individual roof pitches from the baselines.  However, as you see in the 2nd screenshot, the "12 in 12" and the "12 in 12" at the corner do not seem to be editable.  Or at least I can't find where to click on them.  Every time I do click on them, "Full Gable Wall" is shown as checked and therefore I can not edit the pitch.

 

I could probably "cheat" and create a 1" or .5" wall break at the very corner and specify the pitch on the small wall segment, but I doubt this is how this should be done.  I know I could also manually edit the roof planes to do exactly what I want.  However, I would like to believe that auto-generated roofs should be able to be used for such a simple and I would think common case?

 

I am using Chief Architect X9 on Windows 10 pro.

 

Thanks for the help!

-John

 

 

[RL-inc]

Agreed with Eric above- not sure whato you're after.

[CareySystems]

Thanks for the quick response.

 

The builder also confused me with "False Reverse Gable" as well.  It was then explained to me as this: False: because it will have no interior space (just trusses), Reverse: because it sits perpendicular to the main roof line, and gable well because it is a gable end (even though strictly not a gable because there is no window in it). 

 

The plan is attached.  I think the issue with the roof line will be obvious.  The main roof should have a 7:12 pitch everywhere.  Currently it is building with a 12:12 on the right side only.  This is because I have no wall on which to specify 7:12 pitch for the right side.  You can see on the roof baselines screen shot that the 12:12 is stuck right at the corner.  If there was some way to edit it, I would be in business.  Ideally, the suggestion I would make to Chief Architect is that there should be a way to "view" which wall or which baseline or wherever a roof is getting its parameters from.  Something like when you open the roof plane object, it shows the parent object that is providing the pitch, etc.

 

In a nutshell, I want the right side of the main roof to be 7:12 pitch.  Everything else is ok, except for the issues with the dormers over the garage, but I can fix that.

 

Thanks again,

 

John

20170311 Rivendell Lot 5 - Dean (Rev 1).plan

[CareySystems]

Solver,

 

Thank you for the suggestion, but I did try that first and it did not seem to work.  Today I tried it again, and it did not work.  I drew Gable Lines about 1' in front of the front wall for the center gable and then for the right 2/3rds gable, and only the center gable shows up. It appears like the auto roof build is ignoring the 2/3rds right gable.

 

Is there anything special I need to do to?

 

-John

[CareySystems]

Also,  I noticed in the picture you provided, the porch has a hip roof.  Both of those ends are full gable wall ends.  Also, the garage with the 1.5 story cape design is missing.  Perhaps those are some how interacting with my design when they are all included?

[CareySystems]

FYI,  spoke with CA Tech support on this topic and they acknowledge the issue and did not have a solution for when 2 different pitched roofs intersect at a corner of 2 full gable walls.  An bad roofing corner artifact is always created.

 

The stated "best" solution was to make the default roof pitch for the whole plan equal to the roof pitch of the main roof (in my case 7:12).  Then use Gable lines to create the front gables and specify the gable roof pitch on those lines (in my case 12:12).  This is basically exactly what Solver suggested.  The problems with this approach are two-fold:

 

1. It creates a bad roof artifact at the corner.

2. It would not work on houses with multiple gables that intersect main roofs of different pitches because the different pitch main roof sections could not be specified using the global "default settings" roof pitch.

 

I made the suggestion to CA to change the behavior of the roof baseline polylines so that when they are created, you can simply double click on the Pitch or "Vert-G" designations and edit them.  This functionality does NOT currently work at corners where both walls are full gable with different pitches that meet in a roof valley.  This is, however, a common design feature in designs in the mid-atlantic / east coast

[CJSpud]

My suggestion is to first correct the front side 7:12 roof plane such that it has a 1' overhang per your default.  Then make the front 7:12 roof plane cover the hole front side of the 2nd story.  Next, using the break line tool, edit that front 7:12 roof plane such that it is shaped around your front false gable roof planes.  This should only take a minute or two.  One thing that you'll notice is that on the front right intersection of the 12:12 false gable roof plane with the 7:12 main roof plane, is that a sharp point is projecting down below the horizontal bottom edge of the fascia on the front eaves.  That's what happens because of the intersection of two differently pitched roof planes.  Change your false gables to 7:12 and the pointed projecting should go away.

 

Solver's image looks like there's a problem with the right side gable return for the bumped out false gable.  It appears to be lower than the gable return on the left side.

[CareySystems]

CJSpud,

 

Excellent suggestion and makes a nice looking design, however the idea is to (if possible) not manually edit the roof planes on such a simple design.  With manual editing, I agree the problem is easily solved a variety of ways.

 

Unfortunately, this client (professional builder) likes to see many variations of roof pitches, etc.  So manually rebuilding roofs each time is not quick or cost effective from a designer's time perspective.

 

Thanks again for the suggestion, the output is the best I have seen yet.

 

-John

[CJSpud]

When I was first learning Chief (v7), I wanted all my roofs to be generated automatically.  I admittedly had a phobia about learning to do roofs manually.  Now, I find that working with roof planes manually is fairly quick and not as time-consuming as one might expect.  Yes, I do make an effort to use as many of the auto roof tools (roof and wall defaults) on each project and then, if there are any issues, I just manually fix what didn't generate correctly.  So, if you just change your auto defaults for whatever changes your builder wants to see, and then tweak manually, it doesn't get much more cost effective than that IMO.

[CareySystems]

That sounds like good advice!  I will take it! 

 

No reason to spend hours wrestling with something that has limited payback in the end. 

 

I do try to spend the time to identify issues that CA could improve though.  They seem responsive to informed feedback.

 

Thanks again for the help!

[glennw]

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 8:57 AM, CareySystems said:

However, as you see in the 2nd screenshot, the "12 in 12" and the "12 in 12" at the corner do not seem to be editable.  Or at least I can't find where to click on them

It is a little tricky to select them, but it can be done.

Firstly, turn off the pitch display by opening the baseline dbx , and on the Line Style panel, uncheck Show Length.

Or, do what I did in the attached pic, and make the text size smaller.

If you then zoom right in, you can select the individual parts of the baseline polyline.

 

I don't have time to go through all your post and work out exactly what you want, but the above may help.

 

 

Quote

I made the suggestion to CA to change the behavior of the roof baseline polylines so that when they are created, you can simply double click on the Pitch or "Vert-G" designations and edit them

Can't we already do this?

[Ed_Orum]

Still using Chief 10, but here is what I do.

First, build the main roof.

Next, draw two temporary walls where you want the new roof planes to start. ( Earlier in my life, I drew the temporary walls about 12" long.  Now, with I make them about three feet long so I can see them.  Remember the Chief Viewing Caveat: Monitor Size =10x eyeglass prescription)  These walls are perpendicular to the main roof, so the resulting roof will be a reverse gable.

Draw the reverse gable roof from those two temporary walls. Check that the top of fascia, etc. for the new reverse gable is the same as for the main roof.

Erase the temporary walls.  Now the reverse gable is just sitting there pretty much not attached to anything..

Click somewhere on the main roof then the ridge of the reverse gable roof  to show where the ridge of the reverse gable will intersect.  An "X" will appear like magic on the main roof, and this will be where the Reverse Gable roof meets the Main Roof.

Extend the Ridge of the Reverse Gable to the intersection point.

Pull back the edge of the roof at the bottom so it sits on the exterior wall.

Adjust the overhang so it aligns with the main roof overhang.

Put a hole in the roof where you want the reverse gable wall to extend up to the reverse gable.

You will have to play with the roof hole (use separate window to see both 3D and 2D simultaneously) to allow the wall to penetrate but not extend beyond the roof lines.

Having said that, I can't wait until later today when I am ordering X9 and it comes with the "Put a reverse gable here, with cupola, shake siding, metal roofing, different roof pitches, two skylights "Trump Is My President" banner and built in telescope (for star gazing) " button.  I sure hope the dialog box pops up with the option for telescope focal length.

As a great Philosopher once said "A plan design should exceed a CAD program's ability, or what's frustration for?".