dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If you look closely at the washer dryer symbols, you see that Chief has put a period at the back for a wall separation distance, at least I think that's how they do it now. Nice catch P. Yep, I see the dot, but for only one washing machine. It seems as though the rest of the washers and dryers do not have the dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryT Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Nice catch P. Yep, I see the dot, but for only one washing machine. It seems as though the rest of the washers and dryers do not have the dot. Yep that works-- but only in one direction since the bounding box cad block can not be offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Here's another example: I created a "Window" symbol that looks like a Bookcase. I set the 3D origin so that it would be recessed into the wall (it automatically cuts an opening in the wall because it's a "Window Symbol") but the 2D Plan shows it out on the face of the wall. No amount of tweaking with any of the suggested workarounds will solve this problem - but any of the suggested software fixes that I've made could take care of it. Joe, try adding "Perrys's Magic Dot" to your window symbol. I bet that will give you what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 There are thousands of potential symbols that might need to be offset from a wall or inset into a wall. We have appliance symbols that insert into the face of a cabinet and they are controlled by the 3D origin but in the long run, adding a small 100% transparent 3D cube to a Symbol will only work for offset from a wall - never for inset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Joe, try adding "Perrys's Magic Dot" to your window symbol. I bet that will give you what you want. Scott, What amount do you want to bet? I could use a new set of golf clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Scott, What amount do you want to bet? I could use a new set of golf clubs. Post your small plan with the book shelves and I will try..... once I try I might take you up on the bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Scott, Here you go - knock yourself out. But I don't think it's fair that you won't bet before trying it. Recessed Bookcase for Scott.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 I also looked at all the Toilet Fixtures CA provides. The Elongated Toilet has a spacer so the bounding box goes back an extra inch but non of the others have that feature. Just like the Washing Machines, they are missing the spacer. I could go thru the Library, copy Chief's stuff and create my own symbols (each with a 1/8" diameter sphere or cube placed 1" behind the fixture) but that's a lot of work. IAE, it doesn't solve the problem for anything that needs to be offset the other direction. Adrean, if you see this you might want to consider looking at all the appliances and fixtures that should be offset from the wall. Even most furniture should have at least a 1" gap from the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Scott, Here you go - knock yourself out. But I don't think it's fair that you won't bet before trying it. Best I can do, I need to add cad line at the back, not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Scott, What does your Not Perfect solution look like in 3D? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Scott, What does your Not Perfect solution look like in 3D? Very nice. I think you may have come up with a very good solution for medicine cabs, niches and the like. In fact I think all is well with the exception of having to put in a CAD line in plan for the back of the niche. I dislike have to do any CAD work, therefore I was considering your solution not perfect. EDIT: The back is not perfect, but I think very easily fixed if the symbol is made correctly. Specifically the back of the symbol should have it's own material therefore you can make the back match whatever the wall material is. I realize we may still get lines in a vector view, but the render view should be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 BTW, take a look at this plan. In the plan is JC's symbol and there is also my NICHE IDEA. Nothing is perfect. Question, suppose JC has a wall and he wants one of his bookshelves on one side of the wall and another bookshelf on the other side about 4' down. IOW, how do you control on which side the bookshelf is open to? Recessed Bookcase for Scott 2.plan.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 BTW, take a look at this plan. In the plan is JC's symbol and there is also my NICHE IDEA. Nothing is perfect. Question, suppose JC has a wall and he wants one of his bookshelves on one side of the wall and another bookshelf on the other side about 4' down. IOW, how do you control on which side the bookshelf is open to? Simple answer..... In the symbol dbx - rotate the symbol 180 degrees. Do I get a prize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 But of course this also points out the fact that rotating the 3D Symbol doesn't rotate the 2D Block. Basically the same thing as the difference in origin values as with rotation. We really need CA to do something about these anomalies. I can see where there could be some cases where you would want them to be different but there are many more cases where they should be coordinated . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Simple answer..... In the symbol dbx - rotate the symbol 180 degrees. Do I get a prize? Not yet, not sure if that works, wouldn't your shelves now face into wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Instead of asking me, why don't you just try it. I know it works because I'd already done it hours ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Instead of asking me, why don't you just try it. I know it works because I'd already done it hours ago. I'll try if when I get in office tomorrow. Too lazy to try if at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Of course, if Chief would allow us to change the "side" of windows like it does doors then we would get bothe the 3D and 2D to change sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Of course, if Chief would allow us to change the "side" of windows like it does doors then we would get bothe the 3D and 2D to change sides. Flipping wall works of did already say that. But you are correct. CA should give us the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You know...I've thought this through quite a bit and played around with all the scenarios mentioned. I think the problem you are trying to solve really has nothing to do with the symbol origin at all but rather with limitations of window symbols. Having the origins of both the 3D and CAD representations match will mathematically put you back at square one and therefore would be of no use. What you are really looking for is for the ability to insert a user defined symbol into a wall (right now all we can do is attach TO the wall). Until Chief allows us to do this, I think the only real solution is a CAD patch. Recessed Bookcase for Scott.zip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 You know...I've thought this through quite a bit and played around with all the scenarios mentioned. I think the problem you are trying to solve really has nothing to do with the symbol origin at all but rather with limitations of window symbols. Having the origins of both the 3D and CAD representations match will mathematically put you back at square one and therefore would be of no use. What you are really looking for is for the ability to insert a user defined symbol into a wall (right now all we can do is attach TO the wall). Until Chief allows us to do this, I think the only real solution is a CAD patch. Recessed Bookcase for Scott.zip The Window thing is only one case. Having the origins match but both being offset by the same amount is not the same as having them both at [0,0] so no, it doesn't put us back to square one. We can in fact insert a symbol into a wall (X7 provides for "Window Symbols" aka "Projection Windows" but the implementation wasn't complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'll have to respectfully disagree Joe. If you could in fact insert the symbol into the wall like you want, the origins would be a moot point. I believe that the only reason to do what you are saying under ANY circumstance is when an object will not go where you want it to go because of a software limitation (inserting an item where it is not permitted to be inserted). I hold that the origin settings work exactly as they should and that you're looking to fix a problem with the wrong solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 My conclusions are: 1. Some additional bounding box options are definitely a good idea (perhaps an adjustable bounding box origin). 2. Window symbols just need to allow for a custom window to actually be inserted into the wall. Simple as that. No origin adjustments necessary. Currently they only allow mounting TO the wall (essentially a window covering) which cuts an opening of the same size. You only get the illusion of inserting into the wall by offsetting the origin of the symbol. 3. The added option of aligning the CAD block origin with the 3D origin would be okay, but not a real solution in my opinion. Adjusting the origin of both the 2D and 3D representations of a symbol adds a whole plethora of other issues and doesn't really solve anything. I suggest that anything you can't solve by holding down the control button needs to fixed another way and that if you adjust both origins to match you will end up with issues placing measurements, centering objects, point to point move (any kind of accurate moving for that matter), placing other objects in the adjacent areas, selecting objects, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe_Carrick Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 Michael, I think you're being too complicated in how you view this. Basically, I'm just saying that what I see in a 3D view should look the same in Plan (ie CD's). I really can't see how that would give any problems with dimensioning. BTW, AFAIK the only thing that the Ctrl Key provides is to over-ride axis and/or snap modes. That has nothing to do with my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan_Son Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Joe, You can use the control key to insert objects into other objects (cabinets into cabinets, symbols into cabinets, symbols into other symbols, symbols into walls, etc.) which solves some of the issues you bring up. The problems that could arise with adjusting the origins to match have to do with the fact that in order to do what you want, you will essentially have a "place holder" for your symbol that is offset from the 2D AND 3D representations. That place holder would stop placement of other objects (without using the control button override), will screw up snapping (which would use the place holder and not your 2D OR 3D representations) would make it difficult and annoying to select nearby objects that overlap into its territory, would make dimensioning to your symbol annoying (you would likely have to just use temporary points)...the list goes on. I have no problem with your suggested solution (so long as its offered only as an option and not as the default), however I don't believe its actually the real solution, just a sloppy workaround. What we have now, you DO see exactly the same in plan view as in 3D view UNLESS you adjust the origin (which works exactly as designed and SHOULD cause the 2 representations to be different). What you suggest is just a way to override existing placement limits but causes a whole list of other issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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