how large can a ray trace image be set

[jennyultimate]

Hello again Chiefs!  

 

I have been asked if I can give my clients very large files of both interior and exterior renderings for a project. They plan to blow them up to a large banner to put on the construction fence (maybe 6" tall x 10' wide approx).

I was able to save a basic exterior final view (without ray tracing) as large as 15000 width pixels, which should make the picture about 6' tall. The quality is great when blown up and I don't really need the Ray Trace for exterior view.

 

However, for interior views, which they plan to show a bit smaller on the same banner,  I really want to use Ray Traces. But when I set the size to 5000 x 2600 pixels (approx 6' wide x 3' tall), it takes over 15 minutes till the image even shows up (instead of the black and white pixels).

Is that just too large for a Ray Trace? I have it running now and just don't know if it will ever really work that big.

 

A good high quality Ray Trace takes about 2 hours for my machine, but I do have shiny surfaces (kitchens) and I want lighting shadows etc.

I am ok with setting it to Ray trace overnight but if that size is just  too big and will never come out right, then I don't even want to waste the effort.

 

 

Thanks

Avon Catalog | Avon Brochure | Target Red Card | Target Ad

[TheKitchenAbode]

Unfortunately the reality with Raytracing is that the more pixels to render the more time it will take. If you double the pixel width & height your Raytrace time per pass will quadruple.

 

Graham

[johnny]

Id ask the person printing the banner, but the reality of the situation is different than magazine quality printing in that a banner doesn't need to be viewed close.  Large billboard printing is often very low resolution since the audience if so far away.   If you provided them a 2500 pixel (wide) x proportional x 300 dpi you should be more than adequate. They will increase the size and it will seem pixelated (somewhat) close up but look fine at natural viewing distance.

[jennyultimate]

Thanks.  But the viewing distance will be right up close as it is going on a construction fence around a 4 story building on a walking concourse in a busy part of town. 

I have it Ray Tracing now and it seems like it will be ok if I let it go for another few hours. 

 

I didn't set the DPI that high though. I set it to 95. Will that make much difference? It is set to 5000 pixels wide so maybe that will make up for the lower DPI?

 

Again, Thank you both for the quick replies.

 

Cheers!

[johnny]

Thanks.  But the viewing distance will be right up close as it is going on a construction fence around a 4 story building on a walking concourse in a busy part of town. 

I have it Ray Tracing now and it seems like it will be ok if I let it go for another few hours. 

 

I didn't set the DPI that high though. I set it to 95. Will that make much difference? It is set to 5000 pixels wide so maybe that will make up for the lower DPI?

 

Again, Thank you both for the quick replies.

 

Cheers!

 

Believe it or not "right up close" is relative compared with print media.  You can walk right up to the banner, but the quality doesn't need to be the same as a brochure etc.  In fact, even the material that larger media like this is printed on can only display so much quality.

 

You can set the custom DPI in the raytrace settings.  However, you could also just set the size of the pixels larger to accomplish the same thing.

[TheKitchenAbode]

DPI makes no difference, this only determines the physical print size by dividing your defined pixel width & height by the DPI setting. What you need to know is what DPI does the printer need for that size of banner of a given quality. You then take the banner size in inches and multiply this by the DPI, this will tell you the pixel width and height you need to set in the Raytrace DBX.

 

Graham

[johnny]

DPI makes no difference,

Graham

That simply isn't true when it comes to print media. Other media types it may not be as important, but in print media (which is what this is), its very important.  Whatever printer is printing this banner will have a dpi number that it can print to - a physical size and number of dots provided per inch.  Yes, you can blow up the size of the image and scale down, but more accurately you can set the size and dpi for print.

 

http://www.vsellis.com/understanding-dpi-resolution-and-print-vs-web-images/

[TheKitchenAbode]

That simply isn't true when it comes to print media. Other media types it may not be as important, but in print media (which is what this is), its very important.

 

http://sebastien-gabriel.com/designers-guide-to-dpi/

Printers use many DPI levels according to the desired output print quality for a given physical print size. A pixel is a pixel, the print quality is determined by how closely(the density) you pack the pixels into each square inch of print surface. As mentioned, to get this correct you need to know the printers DPI requirement for the intended media quality. This plus the physical media print size determines the height and width of your pic in pixels that you need to Raytrace.

 

Graham

[Electromen]

Printers use many DPI levels according to the desired output print quality for a given physical print size. A pixel is a pixel, the print quality is determined by how closely(the density) you pack the pixels into each square inch of print surface. As mentioned, to get this correct you need to know the printers DPI requirement for the intended media quality. This plus the physical media print size determines the height and width of your pic in pixels that you need to Raytrace.

 

Graham

 

 

True, let me explain a little further.  The only thing that determines possible print size is Resolution, Width x Length measured in Pixels.  

A 12 Megapixel camera will have a resolution of 3,000 pixels x 4,000 pixels = 12,000,000 pixels = 12 Megapixels

An image 3000 x 4000 pixels printed at 100 DPI can produce a print 30" x 40" ... 3000/100 = 30, 4000/100 = 40

Same image printed at 300 DPI can produce a print 10" x 13.3" ... 3000/300 = 10, 4000/300 = 13.3

 

100 DPI is usually a minimum for print companies like MPIX.com

300 DPI is considered high quality 

Use this math to determine print size, but always send the full resolution image for prints, don't resize for the printer.

Set your image size ratio to match your final print size.  In other words, if your final print is 30" x 40" for image ratio should be 3:4, if not there will be a crop.

RGB and sRGB are standard color spaces for prints.  Most companies prefer sRBG but will accept either.

CYMK color space is preferred for four color printers like ones used in magazines.

A Raster image uses pixels and is limited in size to the number of pixels

A Vector image is a solid and can be enlarged infinitely without loss of quality, but these are usually text or line drawings, not photographs.

Software like Photoshop CC or CS can be used to increase Resolution but you're limited.  

Specialized software can be purchased to increase Resolution but it gets expensive for just a few images.

[TheKitchenAbode]

True, let me explain a little further.  The only thing that determines possible print size is Resolution, Width x Length measured in Pixels.  

A 12 Megapixel camera will have a resolution of 3,000 pixels x 4,000 pixels = 12,000,000 pixels = 12 Megapixels

An image 3000 x 4000 pixels printed at 100 DPI can produce a print 30" x 40" ... 3000/100 = 30, 4000/100 = 40

Same image printed at 300 DPI can produce a print 10" x 13.3" ... 3000/300 = 10, 4000/300 = 13.3

 

100 DPI is usually a minimum for print companies like MPIX.com

300 DPI is considered high quality 

Use this math to determine print size, but always send the full resolution image for prints, don't resize for the printer.

Set your image size ratio to match your final print size.  In other words, if your final print is 30" x 40" for image ratio should be 3:4, if not there will be a crop.

RGB and sRGB are standard color spaces for prints.  Most companies prefer sRBG but will accept either.

CYMK color space is preferred for four color printers like ones used in magazines.

A Raster image uses pixels and is limited in size to the number of pixels

A Vector image is a solid and can be enlarged infinitely without loss of quality, but these are usually text or line drawings, not photographs.

Software like Photoshop CC or CS can be used to increase Resolution but you're limited.  

Specialized software can be purchased to increase Resolution but it gets expensive for just a few images.

 

Great expansion on this topic Greg. Here's a few more bits of info.

 

The human eye has the ability to resolve detail at the equivalent of 530 DPI at about a 7" focal distance.

35mm film has a resolution compared with a digital camera of approximately 187 mega pixels.

Large format film resolution would require a 2 giga pixel digital camera.

Pantone colour system provides highly standardized spot colours for print media.

For really top notch print media a post print process referred to as varnishing is done.

Best print media is still done on a traditional press, Heidelberg type.

 

Graham