Existing, Demolition, and New Construction Phases

[SHCanada2]

10 hours ago, scottkendall said:

Like I have told you there are lots and lots of plugin that's allow Revit to be automated, Framing, Text, Measurements, Floors and ceilings take so little time that having them decontrolled by a Room or a level is rather pointless to lose the absolute control you have over them but that said there is likely could get a plug in for that as well.  And the same goes for roofs.

 

I am actually curious, i) what don't you like in Revit ii) what takes time in revit iii) what is repetitive in revit iv) what do all these addons cost on  a monthly basis

 

I see the occasional revit drawing. The last one I saw was quite good, The one before that was an apartment building and had quite a few errors related to inconsistent ASL elevation points that did not match between elevations(its like they hand typed them). a wall on section that did not match the wall on the floor plan, incorrect area calculations for landscaping. But I dont know if that was the drafter or the program. Does revit also have rendering?

 

All in with the add ons, rendering, and revit itself, what is the monthly fee?

[basketballman]

Don't think Revit has 3D rendering capabilities that Chief does ( OTB )

Also R does not do 3D framing views,  user friendly, quick material take-offs, etc.

 

[JuanR2]

14 hours ago, scottkendall said:

Thanks for your post, I think I tried something like this 4 years ago and just found as you put it a nightmare being strict.  I can tell you that I do not have the discipline to be strict and it would end up back firing on me for sure.   Actually my inability to be disciplined with layering and what not is what causes me to actually need "Phasing" to begin with.  Some of it also might be laziness. 

I hear you... what I intended to say, is before being strict on Labeling (AB, Demo...etc.) -which is time consuming- make sure what is your expected outcome. In my case, I expected Chief's full functionality between existing and new elements: this can't be obtained by "referencing" and putting them "up close": 3D is live!

 

 It's a different ball game than using XREF's in Autocad, where referencing is necessary when putting a project together and everything "matches".

 

I plan to separately present the AB model and concerning demolitions and preparations for the addition as part of the project, but it will be in another file.

[scottkendall]

6 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

I am actually curious, i) what don't you like in Revit 

Mainly that it does not run on a Mac and the cost 

 

6 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

ii) what takes time in revit 

Making Cabinets mostly or small details but at this point I have such a huge user library from projects most of those time consuming problems are minimal.

6 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

iii) what is repetitive in revit

Not sure I know what you mean by this?

 

6 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

iv) what do all these addons cost on  a monthly basis

Not sure about the framing once the plan is done and we have structural engineering I can manually build the framing using the built in tools in about 15-20 mins. When you only do between 20-30 projects a year saving 10/hrs over the course of a year is not really worth it. 

 

The text and measurements, taking, and sheet building automation is about $1200/yr

Revit cost when I renewed my sub a little over 2/yrs ago $2100 a year 

Revit LT is much cheaper but does not allow the Plug-ins but it is only $500 a year got to weight time vs Money.

 

7 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

I see the occasional revit drawing. The last one I saw was quite good, The one before that was an apartment building and had quite a few errors related to inconsistent ASL elevation points that did not match between elevations(its like they hand typed them). a wall on section that did not match the wall on the floor plan, incorrect area calculations for landscaping. But I dont know if that was the drafter or the program.

All these issue seem like drafter caused errors but without seeing the Revit file I cannot tell you what they did.  As you suggest it is like they hand typed them is likely the cause.   

 

7 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

Does revit also have rendering?

Yes but I prefer to use Twin Motion and starting about 2yrs ago Revit has incorporated direct connection to Twin Motion and provides one Twin Motion Seat with one Revit Seat. 

 

 

 

[scottkendall]

15 hours ago, basketballman said:

Don't think Revit has 3D rendering capabilities that Chief does ( OTB )

Yes and OTB it also gives you Twin Motion and a direct link synchronization. 

 

15 hours ago, basketballman said:

Also R does not do 3D framing views,  

This is False

 

15 hours ago, basketballman said:

User friendly, 

Depends on the persons ability with software it is user friendly to me even when I started using it Yes.  Can I use just about any 3D modeling software because I can use Revit Yes.   Would it be user friendly to the common Chief User I have no idea. 

 

15 hours ago, basketballman said:

quick material take-offs, etc.

Yes it can all be put in schedules pulled right from the paramedic model parts. It also can be loaded into Autodesk Take off on the construction cloud and will generate work orders, purchasing orders, Full Materals lists, etc. 

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, scottkendall said:

Not sure I know what you mean by this?

what ae you doing manually and then copying around. Sounds like framing, and cabinets?

 

1 hour ago, scottkendall said:

All these issue seem like drafter caused errors but without seeing the Revit file I cannot tell you what they did.  As you suggest it is like they hand typed them is likely the cause.  

 

This is kind of the crux of my question, sort of. If I change a wall in CA, the roof will automatically change (unless I tell it not too) and the renderings and elevations update. so do dimensions to property lines

 

So I am not spending a bunch of time going back and redoing things when I change a wall for example. In your workflow, if you finished everything, and then the customer sad wait, can you make the house 64' wide instead of 60' wide, what do you have to do?

 

For me, I appreciate how things update in CA, and I would be very frustrated if I had to go back and do a bunch of things (in my example for instance, if I happen to have a callout/note icon on that wall that signifies the wall construction, I would have to move that callout/note icon when I move the wall). So what are the rinse repeat things you have to do?

 

Here is the example of the revit drawing with the inaccurate ASL. When I saw this, this got me thinking that revit does not have the ability to do this in the model and be presented like this on the elevations (and this drawing is from a shop that does these types of buildings all the time). Notice the basement ASL is, incorrectly, higher than the main floor

 

This was a couple years ago, and I forgot how much was incorrect. I have a 50 page document on errors, omissions, and non compliance to bylaws. About half of it is errors/ommisions on the drawings. Then I start to think, is this because the drafter has to do all the same things in multiple places, so in the end unless he checks everything with a fine tooth comb, it ends up with these problems?

 

The other thing that I spotted more than once is the rendering does not match the drawing. Its like they took the model to an app that does rendering and then fiddled with the model...or they edited the plans after they finished the rendering, and the rendering model never got updated.

 

So you can imagine then why I have such a curiosity on what has to be manually placed in multiple places, or has to be redone when something else changes

 

just a few of the rendering errors:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scottkendall]

43 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

what ae you doing manually and then copying around. Sounds like framing, and cabinets?

Horzontal Framing is done by a tool by specifying the area and the direction the members are running, walls are done with a similar tool by tracing the lenghth of the wall.  Not sure what the automation does exactly maybe it just uses the tool for you.   Cabients are parametric I had make the original cabinets but now I just go in an set property... Different faces are actually different cabinets were chef you just change the face in the properties menu.

 

43 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

This is kind of the crux of my question, sort of. If I change a wall in CA, the roof will automatically change (unless I tell it not too) and the renderings and elevations update. so do dimensions to property lines

These things generally will update as well but if you say move a wall by using the move tool they will not.   If you select the wall and use the measurement tall to move the wall everything will move with it.   The main problem with stuff moving in Revit is when you use the Move tool but then it breaks the measurements and will just leave the roof as is.   Manually fixing a roof in Revit is rather quick though. 

 

43 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

So I am not spending a bunch of time going back and redoing things when I change a wall for example. In your workflow, if you finished everything, and then the customer sad wait, can you make the house 64' wide instead of 60' wide, what do you have to do?

I would adjust the rooms by using the measurements. 

 

43 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

For me, I appreciate how things update in CA, and I would be very frustrated if I had to go back and do a bunch of things (in my example for instance, if I happen to have a callout/note icon on that wall that signifies the wall construction, I would have to move that callout/note icon when I move the wall). So what are the rinse repeat things you have to do?

 

Sections and callouts do not move, but all tags move. with the items.

 

43 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

Here is the example of the revit drawing with the inaccurate ASL. When I saw this, this got me thinking that revit does not have the ability to do this in the model and be presented like this on the elevations (and this drawing is from a shop that does these types of buildings all the time). Notice the basement ASL is, incorrectly, higher than the main floor

 

This was a couple years ago, and I forgot how much was incorrect. I have a 50 page document on errors, omissions, and non compliance to bylaws. About half of it is errors/ommisions on the drawings. Then I start to think, is this because the drafter has to do all the same things in multiple places, so in the end unless he checks everything with a fine tooth comb, it ends up with these problems?

 

The other thing that I spotted more than once is the rendering does not match the drawing. Its like they took the model to an app that does rendering and then fiddled with the model...or they edited the plans after they finished the rendering, and the rendering model never got updated.

 

So you can imagine then why I have such a curiosity on what has to be manually placed in multiple places, or has to be redone when something else changes

 

just a few of the rendering errors:

 

 

 

 

A lot of this stuff looks like drafter errors like the difference between the Revit plan and the rendering.  Revit does not really allow you to manually spec measurements so there is something more to those measurement errors.   In Revit a measurement is the measurement so really without the Revit file I have no clue what dude was doing but it was def forced in someway... 

[SHCanada2]

1 hour ago, scottkendall said:

These things generally will update as well but if you say move a wall by using the move tool they will not.   If you select the wall and use the measurement tall to move the wall everything will move with it.   The main problem with stuff moving in Revit is when you use the Move tool but then it breaks the measurements and will just leave the roof as is.   Manually fixing a roof in Revit is rather quick though.

do the renders auto update as well? I think you said it syncs with twin motion. Do you do any additional things in twin motion, or does it just render? For instance, if you move the wall in my example, do you go into twin motion and move the fence, the grass, the cars, and the trees? what about materials, do you specify the stucco colour and type in revit or in twin motion? If I want to change the colour do I go back to revit, change the colour then go back to twin motion to see it (do you have to hit a sync button). If you had the time I'd be interested in seeing a quick video of my example to see what needs to be done.

 

And given the poor dude that seemed to type in the ASL numbers, if you raise the floor in revit, do the elevation ASL numbers change, or do you do that seperately. There must be a reason he is typing those in manually and not using the model. My guess is revit does not natively show non storey point elevation markers in elevation view?, so he decided to put elevation numbers for the storey pole as well. I know some people here using CA don't like the storey pole so they put in elevation lines and markers

[scottkendall]

4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

do the renders auto update as well? I think you said it syncs with twin motion. Do you do any additional things in twin motion, or does it just render? For instance, if you move the wall in my example, do you go into twin motion and move the fence, the grass, the cars, and the trees? what about materials, do you specify the stucco colour and type in revit or in twin motion?

 

 

For my work flow the answer is a little more convoluted but if for some reason you being a windows user changed the Revit/Twin Motion the answer would be Yes.    When you press the sync button in Revit the model in Twinmotion is updated.  When it comes to the landscape I do not do it in Revit at all.  I have a Landscape architect that does the landscape plans.  I then take the Landscape plans and create the ground surfaces in Revit for export to twin motion.   I then use the Trees and plants from Twinmotion, Unreal Engine or this Library I acquired from a dude named Twinmotion Guru... If and when the Revit model changes such as similar to your parapets when the revised model is synced with Twinmotion it auto updates everything, unless of couse you added something that was not there in the first place like a fountain or what ever.   

 

When you use my work flow because I use Revit in Windows and Twinmotion on the Mac because all my Adobe stuff is on the Mac there is an extra sync button.   So I export the file from Revit, then in Twinmotion I have to sync the new file with the Twinmotion project so an extra button click.  Otherwise the work flow from full windows or windows and Mac is the same with the same results. 

 

4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 If I want to change the colour do I go back to revit, change the colour then go back to twin motion to see it (do you have to hit a sync button).

In my Revit Template I have wall types that have predefined material types, IE: Stucco Light, Medium, Dark; Exterior Wood, interior wood; so and and so forth sorta like you have many different walls and layers you can define for your wall types this part of the software is really not so dissimilar.  Though changing your wall type is a drop down menu right with your working area this might also be something chief can do but I did not find the setting to modify the interface I just double clicked the wall and changed it in the property menu, that is how revit worked in the olden days then they made the properties menu a part of the interface rather then a sub menu.. Then in Twinmotion you can assign anything to the surfaces... However, if two surfaces share the same material in revit they will in Twinmotion also though you can change the martial and then reset the material on the selected items.   or you could go back into revit if you like and actually give the two wall planes a different material... With either of the work flows if you reload the model the material would remain on that surface due to the unique ID each wall face has.. 

 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

And given the poor dude that seemed to type in the ASL numbers, if you raise the floor in revit, do the elevation ASL numbers change, or do you do that seperately. There must be a reason he is typing those in manually and not using the model.

Honestly I am not sure how he had the wrong numbers I been running a lot of scenarios in my head since I replied to you a few hours ago and I have no idea how the hell he did that.   Because as I mentioned if you measure two points in Revit the measurement fills in automatically the over ride box does not allow you to put measurements only text with a measurement following so for example you could not make it read 15' - 3" if it was only 15' - 0" you would have to make it read something like (Min. 15' - 3").  As long as you do not use the move tool those measurements would update with the model.   I seem to remember 4 years ago when I came snooping around here that you were one of the people that commented and you dropped that file I just did not care enough at that moment to dispute it.   I feel like that file was manufactured and does not tell the entire story.... Like someone exported the PDF for the plans then made changes and then rendered the project and showed the rendering and the PDF of two different revisions.   I know that does not explain the measurement but I feel like something is missing in the information you have or that was provided to you.   Without the true *.rvt file I can not see what actually is going down.   

 

4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

My guess is revit does not natively show non storey point elevation markers in elevation view?, so he decided to put elevation numbers for the storey pole as well. I know some people here using CA don't like the storey pole so they put in elevation lines and markers

I think you are asking me if we can show say Hand rail height level lines or window header level lines(elevation lines & markers).   The answer is yes we can draw level lines  where ever we want.... There are two options with a plan view or without a plan view.  But in both cases the survey elevation will be shown. 

 

As you can see I added a Level 14 I can name it what ever I want but it just defaults to a number and the elevation marker is black not blue the black one does not have level or plan associated with it.    That said If I wanted to make the first floor taller I would select all the level lines from 1st level plate to the top of the roof and up arrow till the desired height was reached for the first floor.   This would move everything on the 2nd level windows, doors, toilets, showers roofs, whatever is attached to the level. So for example it is important to draw the roofs on the first level on the 1st level plate line otherwise they might not move when you want.   For a new user that might cause you some issues but it will become ingrained in your head and even if you do not draw it in the right place you will know when you moved it that it did not move and you can click it and adjust it in the properties. 

 

I am not fully sure what you mean by story pole because to me story poles are something that you build in the field so Design review committees and negiborhoood councils can get an idea of the structure before it is built... You know to see if it is going to block someone's view or how it is going to affect the hill side or what ever.    

 

The Level lines in the elevation view actually represent the floor plans also so if you change the level lines name it changes the plan name sometimes that can cause issues so I always duplicate my plan views for changing the name.   But the level lines also control what you see on your plan view.   You can set tolerances for high and low and then a cut line, if something is below or above the high or below the low depending on if your cut line is looking up or down you will not see stuff.   In Revit think of the plan view the cutline gnerates like a horizontal section so if something is not visible it might be above the cut line.  And there is a tool that can isolate a portion of the plan that maybe above the cutline that you still want to see in the plan view call plan region.  

 

------------------

 

When it comes to Chief you all have a **** ton of automation, When it comes to Revit there is not anything you cannot make/model.   IF I wanted a door that was shaped like a star or your foot I could make quickly.  

 

While you have auto framing does that auto framing generate structural calculations, and simulate wind and earthquake up to 9.0 loads on the house?  Does it generate shear walls where required or does it quite literally exist only to complete the section drawings and give you an approximate lumber take off?  I do the framing from the structural engineering and it takes me about 15-20 mins to manually create it and it will give me a lumber take off.   But I am also putting in Moment frames, Beams, Tube steal, Pad Footings of various sizes and depths, like when I model my stuff I really model what the structural engineer, engineered... IF I could get the structural engineer to engineer the project in Revit then I would not need to do any of that stuff I would just import or link (this is kind of like what you all do for the as-built plan) the engineering into my model. 

 

4 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

If you had the time I'd be interested in seeing a quick video of my example to see what needs to be done.

 

Let me see how my night goes I have a few things I need to get done for a few clients, I also gots to do a little PVP.... In the mean time attached is some renderings from Twinmotion, that go along with one of the houses I linked a bit earlier in this topic... 

 

2580 Sleepy Hollow - Renderings.pdf

 

 

[scottkendall]

16 hours ago, JiAngelo said:

Scott, the purpose of our forum is to help one another.  To that end, near Los Altos, California area I found both California Technical Contracting, Inc. and DES Architects + Engineers, Inc. are looking for Job Captains with experience in Revit REQUIRED.  DES wants persons highly skilled in Revit, with the ability to sketch and think three dimensionally, to organize and maintain their CAD/Revit files; and CTC has two positions available for persons with excellent Revit skills - one position is in San Francisco and the other is in South San Francisco.  I have linked both firms to their application pages.  Good luck.

Lol Thanks but I live in Los Angeles. 

[SHCanada2]

10 hours ago, scottkendall said:

The Level lines in the elevation view actually represent the floor plans also so if you change the level lines name it changes the plan name sometimes that can cause issues so I always duplicate my plan views for changing the name.   But the level lines also control what you see on your plan view.   You can set tolerances for high and low and then a cut line, if something is below or above the high or below the low depending on if your cut line is looking up or down you will not see stuff.   In Revit think of the plan view the cutline gnerates like a horizontal section so if something is not visible it might be above the cut line.  And there is a tool that can isolate a portion of the plan that maybe above the cutline that you still want to see in the plan view call plan region.  

Thanks, interesting way to make that happen.

10 hours ago, scottkendall said:

IF I could get the structural engineer to engineer the project in Revit then I would not need to do any of that stuff I would just import or link (this is kind of like what you all do for the as-built plan) the engineering into my model. 

engineer just marks up my pdf drawings most of the time, as most of my stuff is renos and just need a new beam or post added in, or the odd engineered wall.

 

10 hours ago, scottkendall said:

I think you are asking me if we can show say Hand rail height level lines or window header level lines(elevation lines & markers)

 

sorry I did not explain my self. Storey pole is a CA term for the combined level lines on elevation view. You  click a button and it just builds it. You can configure what it level lines to, top of plate, top of footing, etc.

 

I perceive the complexity of storey pole or level lines is wrt geodetic (ASL) elevations. There are all sorts of rules here around slopes and grades. And maximum height is determined from grade. So when a building is submitted for permit, the actual survey, (which is usually just points on the parcel with a geodetic elevation). must be reconcilled. For instance, you may design the building where the building is 4ft from the PL. but the survey elevation is only 3'6 from the Pl. So then what happens is the deisgner must stipulate the geodetic elevation at the building and put that on the site plan. I think the problem is, how does what get stipulated on the site plan get converted into your level line? And I think this is where buddy did everything by hand. His measurements were never off, what was off was if I took difference in the geodetic elevations between the top of the first storey and the dropped slab, that should be equal to the measurement difference. It was not. My guess was he did not alter the measurements (for the reason you state) but he was hand typing in the geodetics.  In my ideal world, I would stipulate the geodetic points on the site plan, and these would form the basis of the storey pole/level lines. But that is easier said than done, because some things I want the other way. For instance a garage slab needs a slope, I want to specify the slope and then I want the elevation and the site plan to show me the geodetic at the top of the sloped slab.  So I was interested in how revit deals with these things. Given you work a lot on sloped lots, I figure you might have a good way, and I was interested in how your way interacts with revit functionality.  For instance maybe you have to put a geodetic point marker on your building corner, so revit "knows" to use that as the grade marker for your level lines. Or maybe revit doesnt know anything about the contour lines when it does above grade, and you need to tell it. And do you tell it 4 or 8 times (1 or 2 for each elevation). And this where human error might come in. You type it as a point marker on the site plan for it to show up there, and then you have to type it again for the level line grade point

 

[scottkendall]

2 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

Thanks, interesting way to make that happen.

engineer just marks up my pdf drawings most of the time, as most of my stuff is renos and just need a new beam or post added in, or the odd engineered wall.

 

Generally my engineering is a full set of drawings even for Reno’s cali is crazy.

 

 

2 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

sorry I did not explain my self. Storey pole is a CA term for the combined level lines on elevation view. You  click a button and it just builds it. You can configure what it level lines to, top of plate, top of footing, etc.

I see the level lines if you start a new template from the default like brand new template/user would have 1st level, 2nd level,  and roof level but then you can add them where ever you like.  I have all he ones I want in my template already. 

2 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

I perceive the complexity of storey pole or level lines is wrt geodetic (ASL) elevations. There are all sorts of rules here around slopes and grades. And maximum height is determined from grade. So when a building is submitted for permit, the actual survey, (which is usually just points on the parcel with a geodetic elevation). must be reconcilled. For instance, you may design the building where the building is 4ft from the PL. but the survey elevation is only 3'6 from the Pl. So then what happens is the deisgner must stipulate the geodetic elevation at the building and put that on the site plan. I think the problem is, how does what get stipulated on the site plan get converted into your level line? And I think this is where buddy did everything by hand. His measurements were never off, what was off was if I took difference in the geodetic elevations between the top of the first storey and the dropped slab, that should be equal to the measurement difference. It was not. My guess was he did not alter the measurements (for the reason you state) but he was hand typing in the geodetics.  In my ideal world, I would stipulate the geodetic points on the site plan, and these would form the basis of the storey pole/level lines. But that is easier said than done, because some things I want the other way. For instance a garage slab needs a slope, I want to specify the slope and then I want the elevation and the site plan to show me the geodetic at the top of the sloped slab.  So I was interested in how revit deals with these things. Given you work a lot on sloped lots, I figure you might have a good way, and I was interested in how your way interacts with revit functionality.  For instance maybe you have to put a geodetic point marker on your building corner, so revit "knows" to use that as the grade marker for your level lines. Or maybe revit doesnt know anything about the contour lines when it does above grade, and you need to tell it. And do you tell it 4 or 8 times (1 or 2 for each elevation). And this where human error might come in. You type it as a point marker on the site plan for it to show up there, and then you have to type it again for the level line grade point

 

So the numbers on the level lines are geo located based on zero/sea level… when I start a new project if I have a survey or know at least the pad level I place my first level 8” above that then all the levels above and below will reflect the correct elevation accordingly.   When I build my topo it is built or auto generated from an imported cad topo with actual geo located elevations so when you run the contour tool across them the elevations will be correct and those numbers will correspond with the level lines. It is all bound together.  None of the elevation numbers are manually controlled or have a manual override.  There is a way to adjust the elevations but it would be unilaterally across the entire project. Say I started at zero because I did not start with survey data I could later go in and change zero to to the correct survey point but that would automatically adjust all geo elevations in the entire project..   geo points, measurement those things are automatic so if there is something wrong it was not human error it was done with intent.. 

[SHCanada2]

2 hours ago, scottkendall said:

Say I started at zero because I did not start with survey data I could later go in and change zero to to the correct survey point but that would automatically adjust all geo elevations in the entire project..   geo points, measurement those things are automatic so if there is something wrong it was not human error it was done with intent

hmmm I might not be explaining it correct.

For example a sloped lot with a proposed 4 corner building. Say the imported survey does not actually have geodetics at the 4 points of the 4 corner building's proposed location, the closet are 2' away. Lets say they are the following NE: 1000,NW 1005, SE:990, SW: 995.

 

You look at which way the slopes are in that area, and how you want the grade to be for water drainage, so you conclude you actually want the finished grade points to be NE: 1001,NW: 1006, SE:991, SW: 996, at the actual building corners. (I assume revit does not do this for you? be cool if it did, but you would have to in the GUI be able to select the survey point, specify a slope and then specify where you want the final grade to demarcated).

 

So then, what do you do in order to 1) show those 1001, 1006, 991, 996 on the site plan for the corners, ii) have them show up in elevations so that, here is the important point, the height gets calculated from grade. For example if the City had a bylaw that the maximum distance from grade to first floor level is 10', then my first floor elevation maximum possible elevation is at 991+10 ft =1001 ASL. this would mean that if there was an entrance designed on the NW corner, it would have to be sunken.

 

Lets assume my building design is 50 ft from the first floor and has a flat roof (for simplicity). So then on the East elevation the building Height on the south side would show a building height elevation of 50+991'+10=1051 ft ASL, and would show a building height of  60' from grade, and the north side of the east elevation would show a building height elevation of 50+1001=1051 ft ASL (these should be the same otherwise the building would be tilted), and would show the building height from grade as 1051-1001, which is 50ft. Notice the building height from grade on the North side is 50ft while the south side is 60ft. 

 

So can I plug the 4 asl numbers for the proposed building corners into revit, at the location of the proposed building corners and it produces me the site plan showing those 4 numbers, and the elevations with the above geodetics and the calculated building heights from grade? or is there a bunch to do to get this to work?. 

 

 

[scottkendall]

9 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

hmmm I might not be explaining it correct.

For example a sloped lot with a proposed 4 corner building. Say the imported survey does not actually have geodetics at the 4 points of the 4 corner building's proposed location, the closet are 2' away. Lets say they are the following NE: 1000,NW 1005, SE:990, SW: 995.

 

You look at which way the slopes are in that area, and how you want the grade to be for water drainage, so you conclude you actually want the finished grade points to be NE: 1001,NW: 1006, SE:991, SW: 996, at the actual building corners. (I assume revit does not do this for you? be cool if it did, but you would have to in the GUI be able to select the survey point, specify a slope and then specify where you want the final grade to demarcated).

 

So then, what do you do in order to 1) show those 1001, 1006, 991, 996 on the site plan for the corners, ii) have them show up in elevations so that, here is the important point, the height gets calculated from grade. For example if the City had a bylaw that the maximum distance from grade to first floor level is 10', then my first floor elevation maximum possible elevation is at 991+10 ft =1001 ASL. this would mean that if there was an entrance designed on the NW corner, it would have to be sunken.

 

Lets assume my building design is 50 ft from the first floor and has a flat roof (for simplicity). So then on the East elevation the building Height on the south side would show a building height elevation of 50+991'+10=1051 ft ASL, and would show a building height of  60' from grade, and the north side of the east elevation would show a building height elevation of 50+1001=1051 ft ASL (these should be the same otherwise the building would be tilted), and would show the building height from grade as 1051-1001, which is 50ft. Notice the building height from grade on the North side is 50ft while the south side is 60ft. 

 

I can set points how ever I like in the topo solid, I can have one at 5' and one at 3000' right next to each other.  The Level Lines are actual elevations in the 3D world Basic Template starts at zero.  So I can have a level line below grade and one above grade, I can have the front of the house be one story and the back be 2 story.  with a slope down the side.  I could also just make a cliff if I so wanted to.   Did you look at the Screen shots I posted on the second page of this thread there is a hillside home. The level lines in Revit are actual elevations in relationship to sea level or your so chosen zero, so you would measure using the measure tool to get your say 50' total building height.   If you wanted your Level lines to actually reflect the height of the building from grade I guess yo would set your lowest point at zero.   But then no your level line on the front of the house would not be 10 feet from grade it would be what ever it was from the back.   The level lines as far as I know can only represent elevation in relation ship to sea level or what ever your zero point is.    So no the level lines on the front of the house height was only 10 feet and the rear was 20' the top level line would read 20 the middle one or the front grade would read 10 and the rear would read zero.   For over all height you need to use measurements, you might be able to make something that read stuff differently but other then when I had a city planner who read 1180 FF and 1195 T.O.R. tell me you can not have a building that is that tall because she did not understand that those numbers were survey elevations it has never been an issue.

 

There is a spot elevation tool that I have used very rarely it allows you to se it to Relative, and then set from what level it is relative from but I think this might cause user errors if you are not careful. 

 

So if your asking will Revit actually set the points on the building all by itself for the slope of the dirt no it will not, but if I have a survey I can import it and it will generate the 3D Toposolid for me. There is actually an arrow tool for creating the topo solid but it is new and I have never messed with it. I just go in the the data and adjust the points as needed. 

 

 

9 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

So can I plug the 4 asl numbers for the proposed building corners into revit, at the location of the proposed building corners and it produces me the site plan showing those 4 numbers, and the elevations with the above geodetics and the calculated building heights from grade? or is there a bunch to do to get this to work?. 

IF you generate your topo with the 4 corners of the property and do not put any data in the field with will generate a 3D topo solid from just those 4 points. You could then use the spot elevation tool set to relative from what ever the lowest point is or I guess on the front of the house you could set it to what ever that level is and it would give you the height from that level.   But once again that would open you up to possible user error.   I allow Revit to do its thing as much as possible without intervention... I think in Chief a lot of stuff is set up for you OOB while in Revit you have build the template to do things you want. 

 

 

Edit:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are automatically filled, but the are absolute elevations above sea level.   As I mentioned it is possible set them to Relative to a level and then they would be a measurement from that level but I would be very very careful with something like that.   

 

 

[SHCanada2]

14 hours ago, scottkendall said:

These are automatically filled, but the are absolute elevations above sea level.   As I mentioned it is possible set them to Relative to a level and then they would be a measurement from that level but I would be very very careful with something like that.  

Thats a nice tool (we have a marker that does similar but it defaults to height from "0"). So if you can get your 3d terrain solid to be what you want it to be then you can use that tool to show the elevation at any point on the terrain?

 

 

Here is an example of a site plan. the filled markers for elevations are presumed to be from survey, and the unfilled ones are proposed. 1066.52 is from survey on the PL. 1066.65 is proposed building corner.

 

 

 

the corresponding elevation is below. It looks like he made up an ASL elevation for the PL (or perhaps whichever software he is using did it for him) which is inline with the proposed building corner as it is 1066.60, and this 1066.60 does not show up on the site plan

 

 

So my question is. If the terrain is a 3d solid in revit and I gave it the survey data to create that, then that is the terrain with no building. Do I next draw the building, and then edit the 3D solid to give me this rise in grade at my building? or do I specify the grade elevation at the building and revit alters the 3D terrain solid to match what I told it? or something else? 

 

And is there a tool which works on the site plan, which I just put a marker and it give me the elevation of the terrain solid at that point? In the example above, for instance, if I changed the 3d solid to give the incline I needed above, which made it 1066.65 at the building corner, it would certainly be nice if that could be shown on both the site plan and the elevations, with out me having to type it in. 

 

 

In your example, for the 211-5" elevation of grade on the right. Can you use the same tool on the site plan and it shows you 211-5"? EDIT: Actually I think one would want it the other way around. Can I put a marker on the site plan that shows the geodetic elevation of the top of the 3D terrain solid at that point, and then it automatically shows up on an elevation. (this is trickier as it is just a point and not a plane)

 

 

 

btw thanks for explaining it. I never thought of it as a 3d solid to be manipulated. It gives me some ideas

 

 

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

On 3/23/2025 at 4:42 AM, scottkendall said:

Do you have an existing, demo, and proposed model all rolled into one? Not just plan views a 3D Model? 

Can you cut a section, elevation plan view and show what ever phase you want in seconds? Any view you desire? 

Can you Build complex hillsides? with multiple tiered retaining walls with different slopes?

Can you once modifying that complex hillside show the existing hillside as being graded and utilize the existing topo model in your Sections/Elevations/Etc. to generate grading and civil cross sections? (I design a lot of hillside)

Someone tagged me so here we go, I'll try and catch up.
I have experience in Revit and meeting with an architectural group that uses Revit. For context, their time stamps typically double or triple mine for the same building and accompanying condocs. I am based in the SF Bay Area,
Many of your requests for phasing are just handled in a different way, as you might assume given it is a different software. Some of the things you have said in this thread make it apparent that you are not as familiar with chief as some of our advanced users which is why Michael said what he said. If you were familiar with our reference tools then phasing becomes an unnecessary and detrimental approach as we can build automated annotations that are dependent on the files being separate from one another but referenced to each other. Ultimately this benefits us in efficiency and limiting of liability by taking annotations that are driven by the building model.
To answer this:
 

Quote

Do you have an existing, demo, and proposed model all rolled into one? Not just plan views a 3D Model? 

two models, as-built handles existing and demo, though with the exception of just a few projects I have handled nation wide, a demo plan can usually serve as an as-built
The second model is proposed. I don't see any benefit in having these two files rolled into one. As-builts are typically static save for some new scoping in proposed which takes a few clicks to automate in demo. You would be switching some view, we are just switching a tab...is their a difference? The difference for Chief is that I can switch my automatic annotation tool based on the file name being "as-built" where all of my annotations drive my standards for as-built callouts such as window TBR vs (E) window No Work.

 

Quote

Can you cut a section, elevation plan view and show what ever phase you want in seconds? Any view you desire? 

Yes, using reference displays and if you want to get complex with it, just switching the views active default set.

 

Quote

Can you Build complex hillsides? with multiple tiered retaining walls with different slopes?

Yes quite easily, though I am an advanced user. I show making tiered garden beds on a cross sloping lot in under 5 minutes in one of my videos

 

Quote

Can you once modifying that complex hillside show the existing hillside as being graded and utilize the existing topo model in your Sections/Elevations/Etc. to generate grading and civil cross sections? (I design a lot of hillside)

Yes, make an exterior room polyline and concentrically resize it in a polar direction by about 7' and use that polyline as a fence to trim topo. takes under a minute. 
We cannot get cut fill though, would love it if we could, though I have a method for that as well

I saw somewhere else that you had to build your cabinets out but now you have an inventory of cabinets. I would mention that you might want to take a look at our style palette tool and toolbar linking:

[Renerabbitt]

On 3/23/2025 at 9:09 PM, scottkendall said:

Here is something I done in Revit. 

for context, this took 35 minutes, I'm sure that you could imagine that we could get this perfect to your model in under an hour more

[scottkendall]

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Someone tagged me so here we go, I'll try and catch up.
I have experience in Revit and meeting with an architectural group that uses Revit. For context, their time stamps typically double or triple mine for the same building and accompanying condocs. I am based in the SF Bay Area,

 

For Context most Revit users are double or triple the time it takes me to do stuff as well.   And Revit does not time stamp unless you have an add-on. 

 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Many of your requests for phasing are just handled in a different way, as you might assume given it is a different software. Some of the things you have said in this thread make it apparent that you are not as familiar with chief as some of our advanced users which is why Michael said what he said. If you were familiar with our reference tools then phasing becomes an unnecessary and detrimental approach as we can build automated annotations that are dependent on the files being separate from one another but referenced to each other. Ultimately this benefits us in efficiency and limiting of liability by taking annotations that are driven by the building model.

 

I am familiar with your reference tools that is why this thread exists... Am I as skilled as some of your users that have been using the software how ever long absolutely not.   Phasing is not Necessary I could use your Referencing methods in Revit and I know your trying to catch up but I have mentioned that referencing was the old way in Revit while phasing limited liability.  Either the people you work with that use Revit do not now how to automate annotations or did not take the time to set up things to automate the annotations. Chief Provided all the automations tools, Revit you have to build all the tags and stuff yourself. 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

two models, as-built handles existing and demo, though with the exception of just a few projects I have handled nation wide, a demo plan can usually serve as an as-built

 

The second model is proposed. I don't see any benefit in having these two files rolled into one. As-builts are typically static save for some new scoping in proposed which takes a few clicks to automate in demo. You would be switching some view, we are just switching a tab...is their a difference? The difference for Chief is that I can switch my automatic annotation tool based on the file name being "as-built" where all of my annotations drive my standards for as-built callouts such as window TBR vs (E) window No Work.

This serves the same purpose that I can agree with but it is not even close to the same thing. You have two different models that you have to keep updated with any changes Phasing has one model that updates unilaterally across all phase.  

 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Yes, using reference displays and if you want to get complex with it, just switching the views active default set.

Since everyone here is talking up Automation, Phasing is automation because it updates backwards and forwards using one model while you are just view switching.  

 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Yes quite easily, though I am an advanced user. I show making tiered garden beds on a cross sloping lot in under 5 minutes in one of my videos

If all it was cross sloping garden beds sure 5 mins it is that's all it would take me in revit.   The image of the model in your next post if I was just eyeballing like you just making the shell of the building 30 mins no problem. You're missing levels on the building there is so much detail you are missing I highly doubt you could build my model as I built in in 1/hr.  My walls have walls set by the elevation above sea level, your terraced back yard is just a massing block mine is a graded hillside with walls and flooring that follow contours Your missing a bunch of site walls, your trying to boost about doing something in 30 mins but it is not even close. Keep in mind that what I modeled is code compliant, geo located with proper elevations from sea level including the topo it is not use some roughed in slope.  

 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Yes, make an exterior room polyline and concentrically resize it in a polar direction by about 7' and use that polyline as a fence to trim topo. takes under a minute. 
We cannot get cut fill though, would love it if we could, though I have a method for that as well

 

This sounds more like a " kind of" rather than a real yes.   I said in the topic that I give you all credit for figuring out how to use tools to hack what you need.   I have an Existing unedited topo and a have a fully proposed topo.  

 

13 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

I saw somewhere else that you had to build your cabinets out but now you have an inventory of cabinets. I would mention that you might want to take a look at our style palette tool and toolbar linking:

This is something I have mentioned over and over that Chief def has the edge on Revit.   For new users more so then long time users.    At this point I have so many cabeints It is really just a matter of clicking a dropdown list and selecting the right one...  But if tomorrow I had a client that asked for a Closet Cabinet shaped like a star with Star doors I would have to make it and I am gathering so would you.   

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I get it you all love Chief and for what you all do it is probably the best for you, but honestly there is a good reason that Revit is the industry standard.  Other than Cabinets there is nothing you cannot automate in Revit with a plug in. 

 

I can be Stubborn I am guessing you can tell this, I am here trying to tell you guys hey phasing is cool it could be helpful  to you all only to be told why it can not be done and that it would hurt production.   I see how it is possible with limited understanding of chief based on the explanation I received it would just be a matter if the programers could figure it out.

 

For example since everything is based on Rooms, Room (A) would have a set of properties, and Room A would have a different set of properties, Room A would looks back at Room(A) and say of the ceiling joists went to this point now the room is bigger to the ceiling joists have to go to this point but we got to carry the load so a Beam needs to go where the old wall was to pick up the load.  With all the automation chief has I do not think it would make the work flow harder or mess up productivity except for the programing team.   Or maybe they coded themselves into a box and without a full rewrite to take this (And if) into account.   Look when I first saw phasing I said that **** is stupid I wish they would give me a Mac version of Revit instead of this stupid ****... 

 

 

 

[scottkendall]

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

Thats a nice tool (we have a marker that does similar but it defaults to height from "0"). So if you can get your 3d terrain solid to be what you want it to be then you can use that tool to show the elevation at any point on the terrain?

That is defaulting from a height of zero, zero being sea level.   However I could make it default a height from Basement, First Floor, Plate etc.  Though I would not advise that because that is human intervention. 

 

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

Here is an example of a site plan. the filled markers for elevations are presumed to be from survey, and the unfilled ones are proposed. 1066.52 is from survey on the PL. 1066.65 is proposed building corner.

 

Yea you can just use the spot elevation it works in all views. because in the end you are still measuring a point in the 3D world.  

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

the corresponding elevation is below. It looks like he made up an ASL elevation for the PL (or perhaps whichever software he is using did it for him) which is inline with the proposed building corner as it is 1066.60, and this 1066.60 does not show up on the site plan

You can your project level lines to what ever elevation you so choose.  When I started out using Revit I know very little about making plans in the first place and thus I started with zero as my bench mark.   Now I know better and do my best to start a project with a bench mark that is true to the world. 

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

 

So my question is. If the terrain is a 3d solid in revit and I gave it the survey data to create that, then that is the terrain with no building. Do I next draw the building, and then edit the 3D solid to give me this rise in grade at my building? or do I specify the grade elevation at the building and revit alters the 3D terrain solid to match what I told it? or something else? 

If you have the survey data and you want to start with the 3D solid inputed you can if you just want to take the survey data and set your Level 1 at the Number 1066.60 as that is where you want to cut or fill the hillside then you can as well. I have a hidden level line named Sea Level and it is set to 0'-0" When I build my topo I build it from sea level so it is controlled by sea level, all the data points for the topo solid are in the topo solid so you can have 10 points that make your hillside or you can have 200. For lack of a better way to say it when you make the topo solid you are doing the grading and the points are based from zero. 

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

And is there a tool which works on the site plan, which I just put a marker and it give me the elevation of the terrain solid at that point? In the example above, for instance, if I changed the 3d solid to give the incline I needed above, which made it 1066.65 at the building corner, it would certainly be nice if that could be shown on both the site plan and the elevations, with out me having to type it in. 

You would have to use the spot elevation tool  both on the site plan and the elevation, section, floor plan, where ever because all views are the model.   It will not automatically added the spot elevation marker to the building corners but it will fill the elevation Data.  IF you moved the Arrow on the spot elevation the data would update. 

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

 

 

In your example, for the 211-5" elevation of grade on the right. Can you use the same tool on the site plan and it shows you 211-5"? EDIT: Actually I think one would want it the other way around. Can I put a marker on the site plan that shows the geodetic elevation of the top of the 3D terrain solid at that point, and then it automatically shows up on an elevation. (this is trickier as it is just a point and not a plane)

On the site plan if you edit the topo the spot elevation data will change, and the topo solid will change in the elevations but the Spot elevation marker will not move so you will have to repoint the arrow. 

 

14 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

btw thanks for explaining it. I never thought of it as a 3d solid to be manipulated. It gives me some ideas

In the old days it was not a 3D solid it was something else... It created a 3D solid object but it did not interact with other tools very well.   I liked it more in some cases and I was resentful when they changed the tool after 20+ years but after working on a few projects and using it I found that it was a good change. It just took some time to understand what they had done.  I like to figure stuff out not just watch a video that way it sticks in my mind so I was stubborn and I did not watch videos instead I banged my head against the wall it I got it.   

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

The language you use in your response would have me believe that you are not looking at this with an open mind. I imagine any subsequent response from me will be brick walled, pun intended 

On 3/28/2025 at 9:03 PM, scottkendall said:

This serves the same purpose that I can agree with but it is not even close to the same thing. You have two different models that you have to keep updated with any changes Phasing has one model that updates unilaterally across all phase.  

What is the difference? (I am totally open to hearing about it on all honesty, maybe I would like phasing if I still got to keep the benefits of a split model) Maybe share a video?
If you are changing scope on a building element then you are opening/switching layer displays/phasing window/dbx/ etc. You are doing something to change that component. Saying that again, you are changing some designation that refers to a static building element (As-built architectural features are static, the wall exists, its not being moved) Without knowing what is unique about the phasing approach, it just seems like you are opening something to change that thing. What does it matter if its in a separate file. I either didn't stated it clearly enough or my comment was ignored but having a split file setup offers a very large set of benefits in that was can have automatic switching of all automatic annotations. Talk about limiting liability from the potential of user error.
 

 

On 3/28/2025 at 9:03 PM, scottkendall said:

If all it was cross sloping garden beds sure 5 mins it is that's all it would take me in revit.   The image of the model in your next post if I was just eyeballing like you just making the shell of the building 30 mins no problem. You're missing levels on the building there is so much detail you are missing I highly doubt you could build my model as I built in in 1/hr.  My walls have walls set by the elevation above sea level, your terraced back yard is just a massing block mine is a graded hillside with walls and flooring that follow contours Your missing a bunch of site walls, your trying to boost about doing something in 30 mins but it is not even close. Keep in mind that what I modeled is code compliant, geo located with proper elevations from sea level including the topo it is not use some roughed in slope.  

doesnt matter what the slope is, once a user understands how terrain is built in Chief its very easy. I didnt have schematics to reference your building, I was just eyeballing a very low res image back and forth from a second screen. This isn't some paid demonstration. I'm not sure what the fight is here, my model represents everything that might be represented without having any data. I also find it hard to believe that you could do the same in the same amount of time. I know Revit well enough to know that it would be a stretch for the most experience user. Give it a shot maybe. rebuild my model.

 

 

On 3/28/2025 at 9:03 PM, scottkendall said:

This sounds more like a " kind of" rather than a real yes.   I said in the topic that I give you all credit for figuring out how to use tools to hack what you need.   I have an Existing unedited topo and a have a fully proposed topo. 

Im not sure what you mean. I was very specific. 
Also I do not what you mean by hack, this software gives us the tools to build all type of models. Not sure what qualifies as a hack for you. For instance our cabinet tool has the following characteristics:

• Parametrically resizable box that can have parametrically clipped or rounded corners and multi-side angled or radius surfaces
• 2 additional Parametrically 6 direction resizable 4 sided surfaces, the countertop and toe kick, the former having the added ability of rounded corners
• 4 infinitely adjustable and split into over 100 objects and instanced based component inputs(cabinet doors for instance) where a cabinet door is any geometry you could make up and can have 3 different infinite stretch planes or stretch zones to parametrically resize in any direction
• Seemingly infinite extrusions (I've never tested) and an extrusion can be based on a singular CAD based profile, multiple CAD based profiles in a stack, or any geometry you designate as a molding (think of a bunch of floating heads that illuminate if that tickles you like it does me). These extrusions can have a vertical or horizontal offset and in the case of a mesh based profile we can set a separation distance. Also these extrusions can be set to be offset by the distance of whatever object is attached to the face of the cabinet 
• 1 object of any mesh can be inserted into the top of the cabinet and parametrically resized.
• As many objects as can fit inside of the volume of this mass can be inserted and independently controlled and even have a rollout distance if the cabinet is set to have open doors or drawers
• As many objects as there are components in any given face can be placed on the back side of the face
• Any object can be placed as a pilaster/cabinet feet/hinges/hardware and can be parametrically resized and moved with offsets.

There a ton more capabilities of this tool, and the reason I bothered to write it out is to illustrate that I don't see my knowledge of the capabilities and even the history of the tool's making as a hack..I see it as a tool, and it wasn't built by accident. There are many such tools in chief where capabilities are put in place to handle the broader scope of wildly different construction practices across the world. I equate it to knowing the difference between Kanban, Zettelkasten, Mind mapping, the Cornell note-taking system, the PARA method, etc. A software could utilize any of these systems and I would recognize them and be able to use them because I understand their core principles as they  are rooted in their parent development.
 

Quote

At this point I have so many cabeints It is really just a matter of clicking a dropdown list and selecting the right one

I don't agree, as you could see I was simply swiping the feature I wanted changed. I couldve changed all of those cabinets in just a few more swipes, not trying to go through a catalog. This is not comparable, and I am sure you are aware of that. I am a kitchen designer amongst other things, and I wouldn't ever want to go back to trying to find a cabinet I need in a catalog when I could build it in less than a second. Also lets not ignore that I changed that window with just a few clicks and could have built out the full fenestration with complex features in a few minutes more. Not to mention my schedule was already being produced for all of those cabinets and windows with a match system that was indexing and pricing  as well as informing a note taking system that was building out global annotation calls on top of already being sent to a compiled PDF.

All this to say, I have been dying for the day that a Revit user wanted to have a little friendly challenge. If you would like to we can get on a live-stream race to produce a complete design with condocs. Let me know if you are interested, it could be fun
 

[Renerabbitt]

Also wanted to touch on the comment about Revit in the education system. It’s hard for me to say this without sounding condescending, but honestly, that felt like a silly argument. There are some very clear reasons Revit is used in schools—starting with the fact that it’s built for commercial projects and supports BIM modeling, which is essential in commercial architecture.

Then there’s the lobbying aspect. Autodesk offers free student licensing, has massive corporate funding, and invests heavily in preventing license piracy—not to mention the well-established curriculum and support infrastructure that schools can plug into easily.

I know a few folks who work in sales at Autodesk, and I’ve had some fun shop-talk conversations with them. Comparing a company like Autodesk to something more like a mom-and-pop operation is kind of funny to me.

But here’s a simple breakdown, courtesy of ChatGPT:

 

1. Industry Alignment & Career Pathways

• Revit is the standard in commercial architecture, large-scale projects, and firms working with BIM (Building Information Modeling).

• Architecture programs are structured to prepare students for licensure, internships, and firm placement, where Revit is required.

• Schools teach tools that mirror professional environments—that’s Revit for most students on the commercial path.

2. BIM & Collaboration Standards

• Revit isn't just drafting—it's BIM. That includes clash detection, data-rich modeling, multi-discipline coordination (MEP, structural, architectural).

• Chief Architect, while user-friendly and great for residential, doesn’t scale as cleanly into the BIM workflow needed for complex projects.

• Students are often taught to collaborate across disciplines, something Revit is built for.

3. Licensing, Outreach, and Corporate Strategy

• Autodesk (maker of Revit) has an aggressive academic licensing model—Revit is free for students and educators, making it easy for schools to adopt.

• There's a long history of software companies “seeding” education with free or discounted tools to build market loyalty. Autodesk has done this exceptionally well.

• Think of it like: Revit lobbied through access and alignment, not necessarily formal politics, but smart ecosystem control.

4. Chief Architect’s Niche Focus

• Chief Architect is optimized for custom home builders, remodelers, and interior designers—not complex commercial or institutional buildings.

• It’s more WYSIWYG, with quick visual output and easier for a solo practitioner. That’s perfect for the residential market, but less relevant in academic training.

5. Curriculum Compatibility

• Revit plugs neatly into design studio pedagogy: parametric modeling, massing, BIM integration, detailing, etc.

• Schools also lean toward tools that support theoretical and practical instruction—Revit handles both modeling and documentation in one tool.

[scottkendall]

2 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

The language you use in your response would have me believe that you are not looking at this with an open mind. I imagine any subsequent response from me will be brick walled, pun intended 

If my mind was not open I would not have been here in the first place, I come off the way I do because to me you all are telling me that it is not possible and it would break it seems like you are happy with with using a work around rather then a solution. 

 

2 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

What is the difference? (I am totally open to hearing about it on all honesty, maybe I would like phasing if I still got to keep the benefits of a split model) Maybe share a video?
If you are changing scope on a building element then you are opening/switching layer displays/phasing window/dbx/ etc. You are doing something to change that component. Saying that again, you are changing some designation that refers to a static building element (As-built architectural features are static, the wall exists, its not being moved) Without knowing what is unique about the phasing approach, it just seems like you are opening something to change that thing. What does it matter if it's in a separate file. I either didn't stated it clearly enough or my comment was ignored but having a split file setup offers a very large set of benefits in that was can have automatic switching of all automatic annotations. Talk about limiting liability from the potential of user error.

Ok let me try and break it down

 

When it comes say a door or a window:

 

Say you have completed your entire document set you go to plan check and your client at the last minute wants to demo a door.  So you select that door change it to demo in the new construction phase.   Automatically you door schedule updates showing that door as demolished in new construction, it added a wall where the door was on the proposed plan showing that it is a new wall, and updates the demo plan to show the door is now to be demolished.   This is the same for the windows or even walls for that matter though generally you do not have a wall schedule but if you did the lineal feet of demolish wall would update and so would the lineal feet new all.  It will also update all your sections and interior elevations.  One of my clients who is about 30% of my work likes to see demo sections and interior elevations.   In chief unless they changed it and this is primarily what my post is about bout you have to go back and update both the proposed and the demo plan.  Sure it is not probably a big deal if it is only a door.  

 

 

Or 

 

Same point in the project the client decides to make a change where it brings back a wall that was demolished, since you are not deleting anything you just have to select the wall and remove the demo in new construction and the wall will come back like it was never gone.  You can also edit both new, demo, proposed all at the same time in the same file by turning on show all phases. 

 

What you all do in Chief is what I used to do in Revit before they added phasing so do not think that I do not understand. 

 

3 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

doesnt matter what the slope is, once a user understands how terrain is built in Chief its very easy. I didnt have schematics to reference your building, I was just eyeballing a very low res image back and forth from a second screen. This isn't some paid demonstration. I'm not sure what the fight is here, my model represents everything that might be represented without having any data. I also find it hard to believe that you could do the same in the same amount of time. I know Revit well enough to know that it would be a stretch for the most experience user. Give it a shot maybe. rebuild my model.

 

There is a high res rendering in this thread. What is the fight the fight is you think by comparing your 30 min eyeball you could create my entire model to perfection in 1.5/hr  is laughable.   

 

 

3 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Im not sure what you mean. I was very specific. 
Also I do not what you mean by hack, this software gives us the tools to build all type of models. Not sure what qualifies as a hack for you. For instance our cabinet tool has the following characteristics:

• Parametrically resizable box that can have parametrically clipped or rounded corners and multi-side angled or radius surfaces
• 2 additional Parametrically 6 direction resizable 4 sided surfaces, the countertop and toe kick, the former having the added ability of rounded corners
• 4 infinitely adjustable and split into over 100 objects and instanced based component inputs(cabinet doors for instance) where a cabinet door is any geometry you could make up and can have 3 different infinite stretch planes or stretch zones to parametrically resize in any direction
• Seemingly infinite extrusions (I've never tested) and an extrusion can be based on a singular CAD based profile, multiple CAD based profiles in a stack, or any geometry you designate as a molding (think of a bunch of floating heads that illuminate if that tickles you like it does me). These extrusions can have a vertical or horizontal offset and in the case of a mesh based profile we can set a separation distance. Also these extrusions can be set to be offset by the distance of whatever object is attached to the face of the cabinet 
• 1 object of any mesh can be inserted into the top of the cabinet and parametrically resized.
• As many objects as can fit inside of the volume of this mass can be inserted and independently controlled and even have a rollout distance if the cabinet is set to have open doors or drawers
• As many objects as there are components in any given face can be placed on the back side of the face
• Any object can be placed as a pilaster/cabinet feet/hinges/hardware and can be parametrically resized and moved with offsets.

There a ton more capabilities of this tool, and the reason I bothered to write it out is to illustrate that I don't see my knowledge of the capabilities and even the history of the tool's making as a hack..I see it as a tool, and it wasn't built by accident. There are many such tools in chief where capabilities are put in place to handle the broader scope of wildly different construction practices across the world. I equate it to knowing the difference between Kanban, Zettelkasten, Mind mapping, the Cornell note-taking system, the PARA method, etc. A software could utilize any of these systems and I would recognize them and be able to use them because I understand their core principles as they  are rooted in their parent development.

What I mean by a hack is that you have to make work arounds because the tool does not do what you want.  I see it all over this forum people trying to archive stuff.  Some of it is due to the automations causing issues other are because the tools do not totally allow for it. 

 

3 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

I don't agree, as you could see I was simply swiping the feature I wanted changed. I couldve changed all of those cabinets in just a few more swipes, not trying to go through a catalog. This is not comparable, and I am sure you are aware of that. I am a kitchen designer amongst other things, and I wouldn't ever want to go back to trying to find a cabinet I need in a catalog when I could build it in less than a second. Also lets not ignore that I changed that window with just a few clicks and could have built out the full fenestration with complex features in a few minutes more. Not to mention my schedule was already being produced for all of those cabinets and windows with a match system that was indexing and pricing  as well as informing a note taking system that was building out global annotation calls on top of already being sent to a compiled PDF.

For my needs a catalog works fine and I am fairly certain that in more than one occasion here I have said cabinets are the one thing that Chief has on Revit.   But using my catalog my schedules update if I had included pricing in the cabinets it would update, but there is no index pricing for my cabinets because they are custom cabinets with custom materials. All the tags (global annotations) update as well.  If I remember when I used Chief you had to sync your drawings with your sheets.   My shits update automatically when I make a change to the view/model.   But I have to export a new PDF but I remember having to export a complied PDF when I made changes in Chief.  For pricing and ordering we import the 3D model into Autodesk Takeoff and it will spit out a list of all materials required for the product and create purchase orders.  That said in the last 6 months I have moved from making cabinets in Revit and began to make them in Fusion, this allows me to send a file to the manufacture that they can import into the CNC machine to produce the cabinets. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

All this to say, I have been dying for the day that a Revit user wanted to have a little friendly challenge. If you would like to we can get on a live-stream race to produce a complete design with condocs. Let me know if you are interested, it could be fun

From the finalization of the design from the client it takes me 24-40/hrs to product my construction documents depending on the size of the house.  That said my construction documents are for homes that are 3000-10,000 s/f they contain 85-100 pages including Architecture, Electrical, interior design deck, interior details.    While the architectural would take me 4/hrs with no add-on's If I paid for the add-on's it would reduce my time to 2/hrs.  If I fully detailed the model properly while building it maybe even less. 

 

Below is a  link to set of drawings, I have removed 16 pages because they were required city documents, Title 24 energy, and standard details that never change so they are not really relevant to timing. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FijEdicQylo-MVPqpyMWKSX1ScdrT0Ti/view?usp=sharing

 

 

[Kreg_Joue]

 

[SHCanada2]

I'll be the contrarian, I see the value in phasing as I have had to go back and fix mistakes found later..on both files

 

are your level lines all templates? I see a 42" level line where there appears to be no railing

 

is this two sections back to back?

 

it looks like your elevation does not match your renders?: there looks to be a 5' wide outcrop above the man door in the middle fo the elevation:

 

is that something for the lights?

 

I dont see it on the render. or did I miss something

[Kreg_Joue]

OMG! I just downloaded your plan and looked at your main floor. Do you just put your walls wherever you like and then run your dimensions and call it a day? Does Rivet have tools that snap or that you can size things to exact dimensions? It's not even one thing, it is everything!!  Do the poured wall guys and framers not tell you that your plans look like a 6 year old drew them and teach you about standards and how to save the home owner money? I know now why you are looking for work. Honestly, I cannot believe this. There is absolutely nothing impressive about your work. I'm sure my post will get taken down, but after all you talked about I was wondering what your work would look like. 

 

If I were you I would take that link down and work on your standard span skills. Take a drafting class. And who dimensions there house anyway to the exterior of the siding? So the foundation guys and framers all need to subtract your siding thickness to find their dimensions? Really!? This plan alone would convince me, especially after have read some of the content you wrote that you may be good at software, but you are just pulling our legs on being a designer... right? You are hear just trolling us aren't you? 

 

 

I think it would be a good idea to get on the job site and swing a hammer. Seriously. This is very embarrassing. I now feel dumber for having listened to you brag throughout this whole thread about how amazing you are.