Polyline solid subtraction

[MN_JohnH]

I am trying to work with polyline solids. I have created a box and a cylinder that overlap each other. As long as I keep them in their original orientation I can subtract one from the other but if I go to a side elevation and rotate the cylinder, now I try to subtract one from the other and I get and error "this boolean operation could not be completed".
I used to do this all the time with x12, so I don't know if this is an upgrade issue or what.
I am trying to upload the example plan  but I get an error in uploading "an unknown server error occurred"
I have attached an imaged instead.

[MN_JohnH]

4 minutes ago, solver said:

Convert the box to a Solid.

I have tried all that. Nothing works.
In older versions I would have to convert both symbols to solids before it would work but now I don't have the option to convert the cylinder to a solid.
Before I rotated the cylinder in an elevation view, I could subtract the box from it just fine whether I had converted it to a solid or not.
It's just the rotated cylinder I am having trouble with. Apparently.
I don't know why it is not letting me upload the plan file here...

[MN_JohnH]

Here I was able to upload the plan this time.

polyline solids.plan

[MN_JohnH]

Thanks Eric, I am seeing the ways of my errors. Or errors of my ways.
All this time I had been drawing my solids by drawing a square or circle and ten converting to a polyline solid rather than just using the polyline solid tools and drawing it as a solid to begin with. It seemed to work OK in the past but this has been a good learning experience. I will now use the correct tool for drawing the solids.

 

....a little bit at a time...

 

Thanks.

[Alaskan_Son]

Please send that plan in to Technical Support.  Regardless of how you got there, that’s a bug in my book, no doubt.  You can force what you want by tricking Chief into properly recognizing the cylinder geometry like this:

 

1.  Copy/Paste Hold Position that rotated cylinder.

2.  Select both cylinders and complete a Union. 

3.  Complete your operation as usual.  

[Kbird1]

There was some fixes ( 2.19) in the Nov.2nd Update (pdf below) that may have helped this issue?  I have not tested it though....

 

chief-architect-x13-update-notes-23.3.0.81.pdf

 

 

[MN_JohnH]

I am still having more of this same problem. I am trying to subtract the two red objects from the gray object and I get the error:

BooleanBehavior.cpp(424): Warning #272032185

"The Boolean operation could not be completed."

12/18/2022 05:39:35 PM

Build: 24.3.0.84 Windows 64-bit

 

I used to have to convert them to solids but now that is not an option.

Knife.plan

[Kbird1]

47 minutes ago, MN_JohnH said:

I am still having more of this same problem. I am trying to subtract the two red objects from the gray object and I get the error:

BooleanBehavior.cpp(424): Warning #272032185

"The Boolean operation could not be completed."

12/18/2022 05:39:35 PM

Build: 24.3.0.84 Windows 64-bit

 

I used to have to convert them to solids but now that is not an option.

Knife.plan 4.4 MB · 0 downloads

 

Might be cos you have a bad gray knife blank ....there is a small "flap" sticking up on the Tip of the Knife and chief can't handle it. 

Yes , it seems fine once I sent the Knife outline to a Cad Detail cleaned it up and turned it back into a Solid back in Plan

 

 

 

Knife  Plan File : MHD_Knife.plan

 

Mick.

[MN_JohnH]

1 hour ago, Kbird1 said:

 

Might be cos you have a bad gray knife blank ....there is a small "flap" sticking up on the Tip of the Knife and chief can't handle it. 

Yes , it seems fine once I sent the Knife outline to a Cad Detail cleaned it up and turned it back into a Solid back in Plan

 

 

 

Knife  Plan File : MHD_Knife.plan

 

Mick.

Thanks!

[Alaskan_Son]

16 hours ago, MN_JohnH said:

I am still having more of this same problem. I am trying to subtract the two red objects from the gray object and I get the error:

BooleanBehavior.cpp(424): Warning #272032185

"The Boolean operation could not be completed."

12/18/2022 05:39:35 PM

Build: 24.3.0.84 Windows 64-bit

 

I used to have to convert them to solids but now that is not an option.

Knife.plan 4.4 MB · 2 downloads

 

My previously posted workaround solution works with this plan as well:

 

On 11/6/2021 at 9:11 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

 

1.  Copy/Paste Hold Position that rotated cylinder knife.

2.  Select both cylinders knives and complete a Union. 

3.  Complete your operation as usual.  

 

[Kbird1]

53 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

On 11/6/2021 at 10:11 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

 

1.  Copy/Paste Hold Position that rotated cylinder knife.

2.  Select both cylinders knives and complete a Union. 

3.  Complete your operation as usual.

 

That would be a quicker fix if it does the "Cleanup" for you..... nice.

 

M.

[MN_JohnH]

On 12/19/2022 at 10:31 AM, Alaskan_Son said:

 

My previously posted workaround solution works with this plan as well:

 

 

Here is another one. I tried the copy and paste in place but that doesn't seem to do it.
I would like to subtract the red item from the blue block.
I get the same error message.

Tub.plan

[MN_JohnH]

35 minutes ago, solver said:

 

 

thanks, I don't understand either. I created my red chunk the same way you did, I drew the shape and converted it to a solid.
Seems like this happens all the time and the answer is always to re-create one of the pieces.
Anyway, thanks for the time again.

[Kbird1]

35 minutes ago, MN_JohnH said:

thanks, I don't understand either. I created my red chunk the same way you did, I drew the shape and converted it to a solid.
Seems like this happens all the time and the answer is always to re-create one of the pieces.
Anyway, thanks for the time again.

 

Looks like the same issue as last time ........ your CAD work is not "Clean" apparently  ...... there must be a spurious break point or something in the original cad line work, as soon as I selected the Red "Tub"  the "Simplify Polyline" Tool came up on the Toolbar . I can't see it so it must be small.

 

  

[Alaskan_Son]

How exactly did you arrive at that tub shape?  The reason I ask is that the object isn’t behaving at all like a normal solid in that none of the faces have any proper polyline definition, there are overlapping faces (which you can see if you explode the object), you can’t extrude or place holes in any of the faces, etc.  

[MN_JohnH]

12 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

How exactly did you arrive at that tub shape?  The reason I ask is that the object isn’t behaving at all like a normal solid in that none of the faces have any proper polyline definition, there are overlapping faces (which you can see if you explode the object), you can’t extrude or place holes in any of the faces, etc.  

I just drew it like I draw all shapes, using CAD lines in an elevation view and then, when it was a closed shape I converted it to a solid.
I think, like was mentioned above, I need to look things over more carefully and make sure they are clean of tiny little overlaps or something.

My next step in drawing the bathtub will probably stop me anyway, I will try and fillet the weird curved corners to round out the tub and that will probably not work.
I think generally I am trying to do things that are not what CA is meant to do, I should really be looking at sketchup or blender or something for this type of stuff.

But when I can't find a symbol on line I tend to want to draw something that approximates what I need, in this case, the claw foot bathtub.
I keep thinking the time invested will be worth it because I will learn things but usually I just end up feeling like I have been beating my head against the wall.

 

Anyway, I will carry on. I appreciate all the help I get in this forum.

[Alaskan_Son]

4 hours ago, MN_JohnH said:

I just drew it like I draw all shapes, using CAD lines in an elevation view and then, when it was a closed shape I converted it to a solid.
I think, like was mentioned above, I need to look things over more carefully and make sure they are clean of tiny little overlaps or something.

 

I really don't think that's the problem in this case.  That solid has become corrupted somehow and I hope you send it in to tech support for further evaluation. 

[MN_JohnH]

12 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I really don't think that's the problem in this case.  That solid has become corrupted somehow and I hope you send it in to tech support for further evaluation. 

I guess I already backed it out and got rid of it. Sorry.
I will keep that in mind in the future.
Thanks for your help with this.
Question: I know you have worked with sketchup too, do you still use that occasionally or are you finding you can do the same sorts of things well enough int Chief?

Thanks again
 

[Alaskan_Son]

Just now, MN_JohnH said:

I guess I already backed it out and got rid of it. Sorry.
I will keep that in mind in the future.

 

The corrupted version is still here in this thread. 

[Kbird1]

17 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

How exactly did you arrive at that tub shape?  The reason I ask is that the object isn’t behaving at all like a normal solid in that none of the faces have any proper polyline definition, there are overlapping faces (which you can see if you explode the object), you can’t extrude or place holes in any of the faces, etc.  

 

I was wonder that myself actually , so didn't explore further after I noticed the Simplify polyline tool....

 

16 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I really don't think that's the problem in this case.  That solid has become corrupted somehow and I hope you send it in to tech support for further evaluation. 

 

 

Good point it is a weird one....

 

1 minute ago, MN_JohnH said:

I guess I already backed it out and got rid of it. Sorry.

 

Plan is right here on the Forum , just send it in.....

 

M.

[MN_JohnH]

2 minutes ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

The corrupted version is still here in this thread. 

Right. Thanks!

[Alaskan_Son]

1 minute ago, MN_JohnH said:

Question: I know you have worked with sketchup too, do you still use that occasionally or are you finding you can do the same sorts of things well enough int Chief?

Thanks again

 

I rarely use Sketchup for anything anymore.  In fact, I don't believe I've modeled anything outside Chief for several years now.  I can model most anything I need right in Chief, and if I can't, I usually just find something online that's close enough and/or I import an existing model, delete surfaces, and otherwise further modify or add to the model to create what I need. 

[MN_JohnH]

5 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I rarely use Sketchup for anything anymore.  In fact, I don't believe I've modeled anything outside Chief for several years now.  I can model most anything I need right in Chief, and if I can't, I usually just find something online that's close enough and/or I import an existing model, delete surfaces, and otherwise further modify or add to the model to create what I need. 

If I might ask: how do you work with a 3d shape that you find online?
How do you "delete surfaces" like you are saying?
I can't figure out a way to manipulate 3d models other than size, position etc.

[Alaskan_Son]

3 hours ago, MN_JohnH said:

If I might ask: how do you work with a 3d shape that you find online?
How do you "delete surfaces" like you are saying?
I can't figure out a way to manipulate 3d models other than size, position etc.

 

I could easily spend several hours teaching a class on this one subject, but the short answer as that I use a number of methods to manipulate symbols including but not limited to:

• Using the Delete Surface tool to delete unwanted surfaces.
• Using the Solid and Face tools to add surfaces where I need them.
• Combining the symbols with other symbols to add required components when necessary.  Maybe I find a tub that I like in one place and some tub feet that I like in another place.
• Using Stretch Planes to modify 3D geometry
• Using a number of special methods to curve any given portion of a symbol
• Using a number of methods to actually slice off portions of any given symbol
• Using the Material Painter and Adjust Material dialogs to modify the materials on any given surfaces. Sometimes this requires deconstructing the symbol into multiple pieces so that I can paint the sub-components separately.
• Using the Convert to Symbol tool to create a new symbols with the desired faces removed and or added.  Commonly this requires multiple generations of the symbol to get from Point A to Point Z

Lots and lots of little tricks that all add up to the ability to get most of what I want right inside Chief. 

[MN_JohnH]

10 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I could easily spend several hours teaching a class on this one subject, but the short answer as that I use a number of methods to manipulate symbols including but not limited to:

• Using the Delete Surface tool to delete unwanted surfaces.
• Using the Solid and Face tools to add surfaces where I need them.
• Combining the symbols with other symbols to add required components when necessary.  Maybe I find a tub that I like in one place and some tub feet that I like in another place.
• Using Stretch Planes to modify 3D geometry
• Using a number of special methods to curve any given portion of a symbol
• Using a number of methods to actually slice off portions of any given symbol
• Using the Material Painter and Adjust Material dialogs to modify the materials on any given surfaces. Sometimes this requires deconstructing the symbol into multiple pieces so that I can paint the sub-components separately.
• Using the Convert to Symbol tool to create a new symbols with the desired faces removed and or added.  Commonly this requires multiple generations of the symbol to get from Point A to Point Z

Lots and lots of little tricks that all add up to the ability to get most of what I want right inside Chief. 

Thanks Michael, this is very helpful just knowing some of these things can be done. I spent a great deal of time yesterday drawing this tub. It is not perfect but it will do.
I appreciate the help I got here from everyone.
If I were smart I would probably pay someone like you to teach me some of these things. Maybe someday.
It's hard to learn so many things at once and the contracting/building part of my life is extremity busy right now.

 

Thanks again. I have a feeling I will revisit this thread in the future.