Chris-G

Artificial Light in Ray Trace

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Hello all! I'm brand new to Ray Tracing and was hoping to find some help here. I've read several other threads and watched all of the training videos Chief Architect offers, but I still can't seem to figure this out! I'm unable to get my artificial lights to have any effect in my scene. The light fixtures themselves look like they are on, but they don't cast any light or shadows onto the items in my scene. I want the pendant lights to cast light/reflection onto the Island top and cast a shadow of the bar stools onto the floor. I've tried changing the pendant lights from a point to a spot light and it made absolutely no difference. It's almost as if the artificial lights don't work! The only place they seem to have any effect is on the backsplash tile, but they don't effect the countertop below them at all. The attached Rendering example shows what I want the lights to look like in my Ray Trace (obviously with softer shadows.) Any thoughts or ideas? I'm also happy to upload the CA file if anyone is interested, it wouldn't allow me to attach it to this post though.. 

 

Thank you in advance for any help! I really appreciate it! 

Sabal-TestRayTrace-60pass.jpg

RT-General.png

RT-Lighting.png

RT-Advanced.png

LightSettings.png

RenderingExample.jpg

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- Are Shadows on in the Camera view before the RT ?

  (FYI most are using PBR now in X10 , you haven't done your Forum Signature, so no idea what software you are using? )

 

- If you got a 200 Error while attaching the plan it mean the File was still open in Chief when you tried , if you have alot of custom textures do an Entire Plan Backup with the Zipfile option and attach it instead

 

- try RT with a width of 1280 x XXXX while testing for 15 passes ...way quicker while getting it right.

 

- set Automatic lights default at 100...it only uses what it needs and make sure Global Illumination is on in Preferences>Render

 

- if trying PBR (if X10?) make sure Improve Global Lighting Quality   is on in the PBR Camera Technique Options.

 

Mick.

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Thank you for the input and help Mick! I'm using X10 on a Windows 10 machine. I didn't even know PBR existed, I've done some research on that and am forgoing RT and moving to PBR! However, I still don't understand how to make the lighting look natural! I've tried adjust the sun all different ways but no matter what I do, the scene looks like a nighttime scene. I've attached an export of where I'm at and the plan file, because yes, I still had the plan file open. Sorry, I'm fairly new to all of this! 

 

Thank you again!! 

Untitled 2.jpg

 

Sabal-PlanBackup.zip

Edited by Chris-G
Zipped Entire Plan Backup

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I adjusted the lighting and the exposure in the Technique Options. I do have large Sliding Glass Doors at the rear of the room just like we build in our actual houses. I did not have a roof so I've added one and I'm not familiar with adding foundations in CA. Also added Sky3 per your recommendation. Here's an updated CA entire plan backup file.

 

The scene lighting still seems very odd, and I'm also not sure what's going on with the door next to the refrigerator and the baseboard under the Kitchen bar top. I have a much greater appreciation for everyone's beautiful renderings now..this stuff is difficult! 

Sabal-PBR.jpg

Sabal-EntirePlanBackup.zip

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3 hours ago, Chris-G said:

I adjusted the lighting and the exposure in the Technique Options. I do have large Sliding Glass Doors at the rear of the room just like we build in our actual houses. I did not have a roof so I've added one and I'm not familiar with adding foundations in CA. Also added Sky3 per your recommendation. Here's an updated CA entire plan backup file.

 

The scene lighting still seems very odd, and I'm also not sure what's going on with the door next to the refrigerator and the baseboard under the Kitchen bar top. I have a much greater appreciation for everyone's beautiful renderings now..this stuff is difficult! 

Sabal-PBR.jpg

Sabal-EntirePlanBackup.zip

 

To add the Foundation goto Build>Floor>Build Foundation and simply accept all the Defaults for a Project where you don't need to model the Basement at all, ( can be preset in Plan Defaults if desired ) you can even set it to Monolithic Slab in this case. CA doesn't build a True Floor (anything under 0" absolute) until you do this even though in some views it will show a floor, it is what we call the Phantom Slab and will even show in some Cross Sections.

 

M.

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I took a look at the plan.

 

There are two major issues that are causing most of the problems.

1.) the sun intensity is way too high, in mine below I have it set to 100 Lumens.

2.) there are a number of materials that have emissive settings, some doors have "Lighting White" as their material. Emissive should not be used to compensate for poor lighting, it can really screw things up. To find those emissive materials in PBR, turn off all lights and the sun, they will show up as glowing(bright) white. You can then set them to none "0". When setting emissive all your lights and sun should be on and reasonably adjusted(balanced) first. Then select the material you wish make emissive and start at a very low setting, say .05, slowly increase only until you get the look you want, don't over do it.

 

PBR setting is Camera Exposure .26, Brightness 100%, Saturation 40.

 

792999982_Untitled2.thumb.jpg.2e2b1b807673a015d93e31cdeaec4789.jpg

1932049189_Untitled2a.thumb.jpg.d1b91c5ea26812d77e8d3b435d88e989.jpg

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Look like Graham saved me some work  :) , nice as usual.....

 

24 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

1.) the sun intensity is way too high, in mine below I have it set to 100 Lumens.

 

agreed try the Generic Sun set to a Custom Lux so you have more control , something below 3000 lux usually works well, but I usually start at 1000 , you then need to balance that against the Pucks etc so they aren't hot spots.

 

I normally start the PBR Brightness at about 30 with the exposure at .25-.30 with Improve Lighting Quality On, and have Shadows and Reflections on in the Full Camera View by Default.

 

Also in PBR setting a Material Roughness Properties to less than 15% usually helps give it more reflectivity .. eg the countertop material.

 

PS you have 2 Doors on top of each other into the Laundry ...you can see 2 swings in plan view...

 

image.thumb.png.c7113ad1ac578e123bb1bf32cf33f7c8.png

 

image.thumb.png.a0ee781b4f229417038cb1cb77374cac.png

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13 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

agreed try the Generic Sun set to a Custom Lux so you have more control , something below 3000 lux usually works well, but I usually start at 1000 , you then need to balance that against the Pucks etc so they aren't hot spots.

 

I normally start the PBR Brightness at about 30 with the exposure at .25-.30 with Improve Lighting Quality On, and have Shadows and Reflections on in the Full Camera View by Default.

 

Here's something you may wish to try.

 

Set the Camera Exposure to "1" and the Brightness to 100%, turn off all of the lights and then reduce the sun intensity to get the right look. In my sample below the sun is only 2 Lux. then start turning on the lights, say the recessed cans, reduce them down to get the right look, in mine they are only 25 Lumen. Do this for each light type.

 

The advantage when the Exposure is set to 1 and Brightness 100% is that lights will not automatically appear to brighten or lessen when other lights are added. The only thing is you have to ignore the fact that your lights have very low lumen levels.

 

150148974_Untitled4.thumb.jpg.8599d451799b1a7945c25bd92c1b7012.jpg

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You guys are so helpful!! I've only ever used CA to draw simple 2D Floor Plans that we customize and print for our home buyers. This 3D PBR is totally new to me and it's amazing how much it can do, especially with your help! Here's a a progress shot! The only thing I have to be careful with is adding too many lights. I can only show (4) recessed can lights in the Kitchen because that's what we include in this model. I'm trying to keep them as real as possible so that potential buyers know exactly what they'll be getting. What do you guys think of this?! Thank you again so much for all of your help and advice!

Sabal-Sample.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Chris-G said:

You guys are so helpful!! I've only ever used CA to draw simple 2D Floor Plans that we customize and print for our home buyers. This 3D PBR is totally new to me and it's amazing how much it can do, especially with your help! Here's a a progress shot! The only thing I have to be careful with is adding too many lights. I can only show (4) recessed can lights in the Kitchen because that's what we include in this model. I'm trying to keep them as real as possible so that potential buyers know exactly what they'll be getting. What do you guys think of this?! Thank you again so much for all of your help and advice!

Sabal-Sample.jpg

Big Improvement. I would still reduce the sun intensity more as the bright spot on the floor is still over exposed and then readjust your lights accordingly. If you need some additional interior light but do not want to add any more fixtures then use one or more of the 3D invisible area lights as fill lights. Place then about 1/2 height between the floor and ceiling and keep them about 3 feet away from walls and other fixture surfaces.

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That helped a lot! 3D lights are great.. Perfect to add a little fill light to control some shadows. This is so much more fun when things start working properly! Random question, any idea of a better way to build the wall under the island overhang? The only way I've been able to get this to work is add a pony wall with an added cap, but this only puts baseboard on the face of the wall, not the 4" returns. If I just add a normal interior wall, it won't let me add moldings at all. I can't thank you guys enough for all of the expert help, couldn't have done this without you! 

Sabal-Sample-2.jpg

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59 minutes ago, Chris-G said:

That helped a lot! 3D lights are great.. Perfect to add a little fill light to control some shadows. This is so much more fun when things start working properly! Random question, any idea of a better way to build the wall under the island overhang? The only way I've been able to get this to work is add a pony wall with an added cap, but this only puts baseboard on the face of the wall, not the 4" returns. If I just add a normal interior wall, it won't let me add moldings at all. I can't thank you guys enough for all of the expert help, couldn't have done this without you! 

Sabal-Sample-2.jpg

Now it's coming together. For the sun, try adding a bit of color to it to warm it up a bit, use RGB 241,203,168. This should also bring back a bit of detail in the floor and wall where the light hits it. You can adjust the slider up or down depending on how much color depth you want.

 

For the island wall, you can replace it with a cabinet partition, just size it and then you can add moldings to it.

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Adjusted the sun color and the cabinet partition worked perfectly, great idea! Here's the results!

Sabal-Sample-4.jpg

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3 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

Here's something you may wish to try.

 

Set the Camera Exposure to "1" and the Brightness to 100%, turn off all of the lights and then reduce the sun intensity to get the right look. In my sample below the sun is only 2 Lux. then start turning on the lights, say the recessed cans, reduce them down to get the right look, in mine they are only 25 Lumen. Do this for each light type.

 

The advantage when the Exposure is set to 1 and Brightness 100% is that lights will not automatically appear to brighten or lessen when other lights are added. The only thing is you have to ignore the fact that your lights have very low lumen levels.

 

150148974_Untitled4.thumb.jpg.8599d451799b1a7945c25bd92c1b7012.jpg

 

I have not tried that Technique but will surely give it a go , sounds ike it may work better than my "hit and miss" ( and adjust again)  approach :)

 

The Lux doesn't mean mush AFAICT at least when compared to real world Fitting Lumen levels so I basically don't use those numbers as such.

 

 

Thanks,

 

M.

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15 minutes ago, Chris-G said:

Adjusted the sun color and the cabinet partition worked perfectly, great idea! Here's the results!

Sabal-Sample-4.jpg

 

Looking nice now Chris....

 

Do you normally Tile the Returns at each end of the Countertop?  you could add a strip of Glass Tile with a Material Region to "bling" it up a little bit. I'd also adjust the Backsplash tile up or down 2" (Y+ or -) so a full tile sits on the Counter , not the Cut tile....

 

M.

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Thanks Mick! 

 

We don't normally tile those returns, just the rear wall under the range wall cabinets. Nice catch on the backsplash tile adjustment. I will play with this later this afternoon when I get back on that computer!

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