pj42pj42 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 I had a problem aligning the Foundation, the Sill plate and the Framing. The problem started after I finally got Sill plate to appear as Used in Layers. After more than one day of no progress I decided to restart and build a new plan from scratch. I went through defaults on the new plan repeatedly before starting any drawing. Sill plate is not yet indicated in layers as Used. (For that matter, Foundation is not yet indicated as Used) The Framing has not started yet, but there is already a lot of difficulty just aligning the foundation to the first floor. When the Foundation wall is being traced over the Reveal floor outline, the square Endpoint indicator aligns the Foundation wall to roughly the middle of the Reference wall, not the exterior edge. I tried re-sizing the foundation wall lengths to the correct dimensions, after re-sizing the two floors are the same size but are still not aligned with each other. (I started by extending the first wall in both directions. Each subsequent wall was extended away from the first by using the arrow indicators for dimension re-sizing) I tried applying a 5" Foundation offset in the Foundation wall definition. The square Endpoint continued to register ~5" away from the exterior edge of the first floor Reference wall line. I tried applying a 5" Bridge ledge in the Foundation wall definition. The Foundation wall continued to mis-align with the reference wall above. If I try to manually move the foundation wall, CA won't allow a perfect overlap. Maybe this has something to do with snaps. The snap settings are all default, I've tried to understand snaps but so far not enough to attempt changing anything. Any help greatly appreciated, Pedro Plot2V1_2018_07_29.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 Chief seems to have an issue with your setup of the foundation wall. Try resetting it to this : And then give your exterior walls room definition and auto build the foundation. Not sure if it will fix all the problems but I think it will help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks Chopsaw, Yes, I did finally get rid of the Main layer by moving layers up and down until I could get the delete button to become active for that Layer. Now my Foundation wall definition looks the same as the one you posted above. It did not help the automatic build alignment at all (actually moved it farther away) but it did help me manually move the walls closer to the Reference wall lines. Not perfect but finally close enough to move on to other things. Looks like +/- 1/2". Is it normal to have difficulty getting items to turn on as Used in layers or to have to repeatedly change values back in their Edit Default settings? Among other things, right now I'm having difficulty getting room definitions to turn back on for the first floor (I had experimented with checking the "No Room Definition" box in Exterior wall Edit default. I think they are all unchecked now but I suspect somewhere there is one left checked for Exterior walls. Somewhere. Regards, Pedro Plot2V1_2018_07_29.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 29, 2018 Share Posted July 29, 2018 There is some strange things happening in that 1st plan Pedro , I think you have been playing with all the Settings and Materials as Framing isn't building and or displaying in Plan view etc. Also when I 1st opened the plan I couldn't even see a Foundation ....then I read CS's note on the room definitions ....to fix that click on the Wall Icon , then hold Shift and drag a box around the whole house and open the DBX and UnCheck "has no room definition" on the General Tab. I think you may want to start over with a Clean Template ....have a look at this quick one I did to get you started.....check the Saved cameras 1st and see if it is setup how you need it.... Pedro Template.plan Mick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 Thanks Eric, I had seen that Marquee business in a video but I hadn't picked up on clicking the Exterior wall icon first. Now room definitions are available again. Regards, Pedro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 I started framing. The Sill plates once again did not register with the Foundation wall but I was able to move them manually, and move the Floor joist ends out flush with the Foundation wall. For some reason Floor 1 framing did not automatically build. Maybe it is because of alignment issues or maybe because there is no bottom plate (bottom of 1st floor wall studs register on Sill plate) So I'm ready to manually build the wall framing for the first floor but since there is no automatic there to start with I don't seem to be able to get the "Open Wall Detail" icon for floor 1 in order to edit the walls. How can I manually build the walls? Thanks for any help, Pedro Plot2V3_2018_07_30.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 19 hours ago, pj42pj42 said: I started framing. The Sill plates once again did not register with the Foundation wall but I was able to move them manually, and move the Floor joist ends out flush with the Foundation wall. For some reason Floor 1 framing did not automatically build. Maybe it is because of alignment issues or maybe because there is no bottom plate (bottom of 1st floor wall studs register on Sill plate) So I'm ready to manually build the wall framing for the first floor but since there is no automatic there to start with I don't seem to be able to get the "Open Wall Detail" icon for floor 1 in order to edit the walls. How can I manually build the walls? Thanks for any help, Pedro Plot2V3_2018_07_30.plan As I mentioned above you have screwed up the Framing material along the way at some point I think.....the Material must be of TYPE Framing eg the Fir Studs in the Library not just a colour or image or the Framing won't build automatically , you can turn the material into the Framing Type if needed. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 As I posted above both rows of brick need to be in the "Main Layer". I assume you are in a very warm climate and never have to deal with frost with this type of foundation design ? Your main floor walls are set to "Retain Wall Framing" which will retain a non framing condition if this is set before framing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Chopsaw, Thanks you are right, I didn't get the Foundation wall definition exactly as you had posted. I am going to leave as is for now because all is manually aligned. Unless this is causing further problems! Also, I found in Edit Defaults, Walls, Exterior wall, Structure, the "Retain Wall Framing" variable and deselected. In -20F weather basement maintains ~35F. Kbird1, I am looking for the window you posted. I've looked in [Edit Default] Framing, Material Region and Walls. I had defined the Exterior wall. In Framing defaults I selected Use Wall Framing Material. In Framing defaults Materials it lists fir framing But I noticed that in Edit Defaults, Walls, Exterior Wall, Materials that there was no fir lumber listed in Materials. How do I get the Main wall material listed here so that I can select fir framing for the Main layer? Is it necessary to have it listed here? Currently I have attempted ~10 times to rebuild framing using Automatically Build Wall Framing and I have selected and unselected Use Wall Framing Material and rechecked all the windows above but so far it has not built first level framing. Many thanks for all your help, Pedro Plot2V3_2018_07_31.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Hi Pedro, Your main floor will frame in the 07 30 version of the plan by just making sure all walls have the "Retain Wall Framing" setting turned off. The wall Framing material that Mick mentioned appears to be ok in the walls I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Thanks, I understand now. Click on walls to edit, not Edit Defaults. Much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 19 hours ago, Chopsaw said: Your main floor walls are set to "Retain Wall Framing" which will retain a non framing condition if this is set before framing. Good catch CS , the Exterior and Interior Wall Defaults are set to retain framing so all walls in the plan are set this way and thus no wall framing is build as it was set when there was none ....when the Wall was drawn.... Marquee Slect will help you reverse that easily too. I had assumed after seeing Use Wall Framing Material was unchecked that an attempt to make one's own Framing material had been made and it wasn't set to a Framing Type.....learned that one myself making my Spruce (SPF) Framing Library. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Everything is slightly out of alignment, floor to floor, in reference to the exterior dimensions of the building. All walls are about 1" inside the Reference floor lines. I've been moving studs manually but it seems that the further I go the more that the 3D view disagrees with the Framing, Floor Plan View. It's off by about 1/4" now and I'm half way around the first floor. Maybe I need to start with a clean sheet again? And make sure that both layers of bricks are in the Main layer for the Wall definition? If I do have to start another clean sheet, is there a way to ensure that Wall framing lumber is nominal? I specified everywhere I could find (before I started drawing in the last clean sheet) in Edit, Preferences before I started drawing that Lumber was nominal; but the walls built with 1 1/2" thick studs... though they were 4" wide as I had specified... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 1 hour ago, pj42pj42 said: Everything is slightly out of alignment, floor to floor, in reference to the exterior dimensions of the building. All walls are about 1" inside the Reference floor lines. It would be rare if the Siding Material (3/4"?) did not overlap the Brick Foundation , as you want a drip for rain etc... not a Joint at that point . CA will show it as flush in cross-section, but ITRW we would hang the Siding down 1.5-2" Quote I've been moving studs manually but it seems that the further I go the more that the 3D view disagrees with the Framing, Floor Plan View. It's off by about 1/4" now and I'm half way around the first floor. You shouldn't need too move framing manually.... I did notice in 7-30 you have bottom wall plates turned off , and only 1 top plate which is uncommon unless it is 4x4? Quote Maybe I need to start with a clean sheet again? And make sure that both layers of bricks are in the Main layer for the Wall definition? See an updated plan below with the wall definitions and a Nominal wall Type made and Material for it setup..... Quote If I do have to start another clean sheet, is there a way to ensure that Wall framing lumber is nominal? I specified everywhere I could find (before I started drawing in the last clean sheet) in Edit, Preferences before I started drawing that Lumber was nominal; but the walls built with 1 1/2" thick studs... though they were 4" wide as I had specified... See above ...done for you... Pedro Template_Nominal Framing.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Your Reference lines are set for "Walls, Normal" and it may be more beneficial for you to turn on the "Walls, Main Layer Only" layer to line things up better. This can be done in the "Reference Display Layerset" For 2" studs you will need to navigate to the DBX that Mick was referencing earlier, "Define Material" Open a wall and go to Wall Types > Define > Double Click "Fir Stud 24" OC" of Main Layer > then in Plan Materials > Edit or Copy > Change the Thickness on the General- Specifications tab. Ok all the way back out. I may not be necessary to start over but sometimes you get things messed up and need to auto rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Chopsaw said: Open a wall and go to Wall Types > Define > Double Click "Fir Stud 24" OC" of Main Layer > then in Plan Materials > Edit or Copy > Change the Thickness on the General- Specifications tab. Ok all the way back out. I usually make a Copy and change the Name ie add -Nominal in this case ....and before backing out all the Way Out save it to my User Library too for future use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 Many thanks for the template. Whether because my reference lines were not for the correct position in my previous attempts or what exactly I'm not sure yet, but studs did fall on edge of sill plate. The studs had to be increased to 2" but I did that by not putting any windows in and selecting all and changing to 2". Right now I'm putting in some 2 x 6 bottom plates in preparation for the roof framing. I have copied top plates from the Wall detail box and positioned them in place on top of the 2nd floor ceiling joists. However, is this the correct approach? Later on I'll have to be generating a lot of custom, manual lumber elements to go into the roof framing because it is a very non-standard roof. Is there a way to create pieces of lumber and orient them easily in x,y and z? And then for all framing elements to show up correctly in the layouts? I've looked for this in videos but so far have not found info on how to do that. Plot3V1.plan Plot3V1.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Pedro, My apologies if I missed it but is this an existing building you are modeling ? Typically the best approach is to make as many adjustments and come as close as you can with auto framing turned on until you reach a point where you must turn it off and edit manually. Unfortunately the learning curve is steep for both knowing how to set up the auto framing the way you want it and then finishing with manual editing. For the roof auto frame members can be copied and edited or repurposed depending on what you need to do. In extreme situations sometimes only a solid will work but there are many other options to try before resorting to that. You can frame outside of a wall detail in extreme situations but don't try that with trusses or you will be in a mess in a hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 Bottom plates are turned off in the build wall framing dbx , so they are there , and I don't see rim joists either , not sure if that is accurate or a mistake though. Looks like you moved the 2nd floor top plates up instead of copying them in place and then moving the copy up ? so make a copy and pull the top plate back into place... Many of the top floor ceiling joists are doubled up but I am not sure if that is accurate , though the secondary ones don't reach the outer Walls. You can use the General Framing Tool to make many Custom Framing members Or You can use a CAD detail to make Framing Members and then place them back into plan and elevations views to turn them into Solids and manipulate them further , have a look at this Video of a Custom Trellis build where they use this method to make the trellis parts , the framing part starts about minute 12.00. https://youtu.be/tONcWPb8Mxs Edit....forgot pics..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chopsaw said: Pedro, My apologies if I missed it but is this an existing building you are modeling ? In another post he mentioned he was modelling an old existing building I think ... not this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 Yes, it is an existing building. 120+ yrs. old. With many idiosyncrasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 And no rim joists in this construction. Anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 This is what the roof looks like. The built-in gutters haven't been placed yet, they wrap around the house everywhere except under the gable ends. Now I have to put a flat metal roof over this section. It rises 4" from the two edges of the small hip roof planes and then extends flat in the direction of the two gable roofs. I'm stumped on how to change roof material to metal for this section only and I'm stumped on how to create it. My hope is that after creating the roof planes that the auto roof framing will fill in to the manually created roof plane shape. Maybe that's not the right strategy! Plot3V4.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopsaw Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Hi Pedro, Looking Good, You will need a manual roof plane for that situation. I made a quick video for you. Sorry I forgot about the 4". Open the roof plane and lock the pitch and then add 4 to the baseline height and turn the fascias back on. Also helps to have the "Roofs, Baselines" layer turned on when drawing manual roof planes so you have the direction indicator as shown in video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pj42pj42 Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it. Every time I selected a different material in the past it changed all the material, but it looks like it'll work out. I finished most of the roof framing and it worked out really well. It looks exactly like the actual framing. I'm psyched. Again, many thanks, Pedro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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