tantrim Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I am currently working on a large renovation to where we are changing the roof line to a house. It is currently a mansard roof, with three levels. Were are planning on building scissor trusses over majority it all. The top level we will be leaving the flat roof in place and designing trusses to clear span from outer wall with a mild bottom chord pitch to clear any out of plane characteristics of the existing framing. The ceiling in that room will also stay in-tack, so no reason to disrupt what's there. The second level which is the middle will have some rafters being used as we will not have enough the heel height to engineer a truss, it will also have attic trusses that will be used for a loft) then the third level will have scissor trusses that will be framed over an existing garage which is currently an attic. We will need to build up the wall height in this room as it is only 72", we are going to make the new room elevation at 10" with a 4:12 pitch on the ceiling. I have laid in all the walls created a roof plan and then framed it with rafter, but with several modifications and changes and adding trusses it has gotten to confusing and busy. I copied the job over to a new file and deleted out all the roof framing and trusses. I am going to go through and set all my defaults to what they need to be and start over with doing the trusses first then finish with "build roof" for all the stick built areas. THE PROBLEM...I am having difficulty framing trusses over the 1st level where we plan to leave the existing framing (2x10 12o.c.). I have created two roof beams and modified them to be 5.5"w x 1.5h and set them to set onto of the 2x10's. I am trying to create a truss to bear on those as my nail plate but the trusses tend to want to bear to the top wall plate. I need some help on this section before I move onto the other two. ...if anyone wants a to add some comments I welcome them!! I have attached some pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Trusses will delete any stick built framing automatically so you will have to do it manually. There is also a bug where mixing stick built framing on a second floor over trusses will delete some of the trusses below. I told chief about this several versions ago. The answer is to do it manually. You may have to fake some section views with cad lines and p-lines to look correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think I understand the issue. Those trusses need to go one the second level. You need to build a floor with a 1-1/2" ceiling height above the 2x10's. You must understand those trusses need a ceiling. You are already defining a ceiling with 2x10's. Build another floor level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Tantrim, I wouldn't get hung up on the framing until I had all the roofs & ceilings just the way I want them. Including specifying the framing for each roof & ceiling plane. Auto roofs can take you a very long ways, but eventually you gotta take over. Be sure to use the 'join roofs" for any edited roof planes. If you know you're going to use trusses in an area, then define the framing members of the roof & cl'g planes w/ what you're gonna use for top/bot truss chords. Build the trusses 1st. Your 1st truss needs a roof & cl'g plane to be built. After that, you can edit the truss envelope (in a section camera; not the CAD Detail) & lock your edits & place the truss on the moon if you want to. It'll still be a truss. Floor & ceiling framing can be edited, copy/pasted, moved up/down & will stay where you put them; but you're done having Chief rebuild w/out losing your changes. Roof rafters & sloped ceiling joists can be edited etc also, but you must deselect "Automatic Height" or they will jump up/down on you. They will retain their slope, even when moved completely away from the cl'g or roof plane they came from. So you can get a lot of tricky overframing done w/out having ALL the roof & cl'g planes actually built. You can also create copies of the plan, work on a specific area, let Chief frame it, & then copy/paste hold to "real" plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Last time I used the "Truss Base" tool, it worked. That can help w/ overframing too. I have had "issues" w/ trusses occasionally, so just make it a symbol & put it on the truss layer. So I'll back away from the moon reference. But, the sun is down & it's almost time to eat. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrim Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I wanted to say thanks for all your comments it has given me some good direction on how to proceed...Scott I was thinking that was the best way to achieve the correct bearing heights yesterday, I am glad to hear that I was not the only one with that Idea. I will touch base with some updates in a few days! -Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think my way is best, but don't rule out what Jim said. I think there is some merit to what he is talking about. What he is saying in effect is build the trusses in a new plan in the same exact location (relative to the world), and once you have them built in the "SHADOW PLAN", you can select trusses, LOCK THEM , copy, go to THE REAL PLAN, and paste in location. Roofs can be tricky, you really need to know what you are doing to take advantage of the many different options you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrim Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think I understand the issue. Those trusses need to go one the second level. You need to build a floor with a 1-1/2" ceiling height above the 2x10's. You must understand those trusses need a ceiling. You are already defining a ceiling with 2x10's. Build another floor level. Scott, Do you think that I need to zero out the "Floor Finish" since I plan to cut back the old plywood so I am nailing the bearing plate directly to the 2x10's. I would imagine I need to modify the "Floor Structure" to just the 9-1/4" for the joist also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrim Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I was a Truss Designer & Component Manufacture for several years so using Chief from what I have used prior is somewhat a step back but I am making do. I am finding it tricky at times in this software but I think it is more to do with learning how it works. Thanks for your input.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrim Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 this is what I have created for a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 THE PROBLEM...I am having difficulty framing trusses over the 1st level where we plan to leave the existing framing (2x10 12o.c.). I still say the trusses will delete the rafters underneath them. Changing them to floor joists might work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Not the trusses, Scott. Although I suppose you could build them in a "shadow plan" as you call it. I was referring to tricky roof planes or roofs that have changed after you have done all the editing, can't rebuild roof framing & to manually reframe that area would be a PIA. You can create a copy of the plan w/ the new roofs, let Chief build the framing, which will rebuild all the roof framing, but you only copy/paste/hold the framing you need back to the real plan. My way? Your way? We are both saying the same thing. Get your roofs & ceilings right & the framing takes care of itself (including manually built trusses)........ for the most part. I was just offering a simple basic sequence that I found works well for me. Get your roofs & cl's right. build the trusses auto frame the roofs & cl'gs disable auto framing & manually edit as needed. I wasn't disagreeing w/ you at all. Sorry if it came across like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Ted, I used to work for a truss company in the design dept too. 27yrs ago, Florida. Was just a flunky, but got to see how it all came together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You can use a "general framing member", size it, place it wherever, put it on any layer. Chief ignores general framing members when auto framing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You can use a "general framing member", size it, place it wherever, put it on any layer. Chief ignores general framing members when auto framing. I'm not sure if CA ignores General framing member when auto rebuilding. It seems that at one time I had to build general framing member OUTSIDE of building and then move in place. But you may be correct now Jim, I must double check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebdesign Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I did double-check that statement just before I posted it. But maybe you can find an exception. I'll wait for your confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I did double-check that statement just before I posted it. But maybe you can find an exception. I'll wait for your confirmation. Jim, I just checked, and you are correct, the beams stay in place. I swear in an earlier version, maybe x4, I would draw a floor beam and it would disappear. I did vids on this. Maybe I was wrong back then, but now CA seems to be behaving very well now in regards to building FRAMING MEMBERS.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRAWZILLA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I use the new floor and ceiling beam tools and they stay in place even when auto framing, Chief also puts them on their own layer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantrim Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 How do you modify the top plate to a roof plane. I copied my roof plane from level 1 and pasted it to level 2 but it does not adjust. I can not rebuild planes as they are all manually laid in., and the auto build throws them out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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