Stirrup auto count on reinforced concrete structures

[IvanCyr]

For concrete beams in Chief, if its fabricated from concrete, Chief has specifications for "longitudinal" rebar with overlap and manually include # of bars/rods as "Rebar Count".  This is fairly basic.  However, regarding stirrups, there are a couple factors which are problematic for me and wonder if anyone has found an EASY answer.  I want to have Chief calculate the # of stirrups given a fixed spacing (which I can not find here only "Stirrup Count" which means I have to take the beam and divide the length by spacing, truncate the value and add one (usually).  This must be done manually for every concrete beam of various length.  Is there a known method to make this automatic??  Second, I would like to have Chief calculate the total length of stirrup rebar...which seems to be found within the beam's object properties and listed within Ruby Code as "total_stirrup_length".  What is not known here, although it would not be too hard to reverse engineer it, is to establish what Chief uses as the Concrete Cover (the amount of concrete outside of the "longitudinally" placed rebar).  Is there a way to access the width and height of the concrete cover values of a beam?

 

For the record, I have created macros to calculate this automatically using a known value for the concrete cover but now I have to set the Chief stirrup count to zero so I can do what I desire automatically...just seems to be something simple that Chief could do for us.  One work around which I am looking at is setting the stirrup_count as the spacing value and just using that in my macro.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something obvious...or not so obvious.

 

Any takers for comments?  Thanks in advance.

 

Ivan

 

 

[Renerabbitt]

51 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

Is there a known method to make this automatic

yes, in X17 we have framing member defaults which have an OIP. build your macros and place in the OIP or in components depending on what you are reporting to, schedule or material list.
Regarding everything else, you have all the info that we have if you've managed to use the object properties macro in TMM, it's just a matter of working with the data thats there to come up with your script(s)

[mthd97]

Hey @Renerabbitt, Can you please tell us what is an OIP and a TMM is so we can follow. I think your method would have to suffice for CA at present ?

 

Hey @IvanCyr, Very good question, I have done these calculations manually and then entered the calculations into my own xl spread sheet. It certainly would be great to have it calculated automatically in CA.
 

Accurate Automatic Reinforcement Calculations in CA would be the holy grail inside CAD software. You would probably need to be able to draw stirrups in a cad detail and have them become 3D objects that can be entered into the Materials List. As you know stirrups have curves in the corners and overlaps and spacings and they also have standard purchase lengths. The same can be true for certain types of deformed reinforcement bars that overlap. Maybe a suggestion for a future version of CA ?

I don’t know what specialist reinforcement cad software does but we could probably learn from them maybe ?

 

Let’s see what others have to say ?

 

 

[IvanCyr]

Renee,

 

Thank you for your reply.  Indeed the %object_properties% are fully exposed for my use.  Effectively in CA, the stirrups are not adequately defined for effective use.  I am interested in output in the Materials List and I do have a good macro option...I was interested to know if any "deep dive" into the software gave me either better understanding or options for easier calculations.  Sadly, it does not seem to be the case.

 

Effectively, I take both my concrete post/beams and use the Stirrup Count and Stirrup Oversize for values I use in my macro to make "smart" calculations.  I add "Accessories" to the beam in its component.  Delete the Chief Stirrup value. The stirrup options are just math and I created macros to calculate each stirrup type I am using... I calculate the number needed based on a spacing value I "steal" from "stirrup_count".  I am interested to know the stirrup rebar size, single stirrup length, how many I need to cut, and the total length of specific size rebar for the stirrups.

 

The longitudinal rebar is currently adequately defined in Chief...stirrups need considerable help; but really needs only one more output in the Materials List and two other variables to define 95% options available in this construction type.

 

My 2 cents. :-)

 

Very much love the fact that we can code inside the software to make outputs to our needs.

[Renerabbitt]

13 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

I add "Accessories" to the beam in its component.

see previous post, we have framing member defaults, add your accessory component to your default so you don't have to keep repeating.
 

 

14 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

I am interested to know the stirrup rebar size

what would be the criteria for determining the size of the rebar? can you just create a calculation for this based on the size of the beam?

 

 

15 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

single stirrup length

can't you calc this based on the beam size?

 

 

16 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

how many I need to cut

can't you calc this based on the bame size ?

 

 

21 minutes ago, IvanCyr said:

and the total length of specific size rebar for the stirrups.

this is just another macro in the components of the default beam member that sums qty

So far this all seems doable
 

[IvanCyr]

Hey Rene,

 

I'm using this macro in the framing member defaults...just that engineering will have different beam sizes and rebar requirements. 

 

Engineering determines size and spacing of rebar.

 

Stirrups can be wrapped differently for 4/6/8/10 longitudinal bars/plus circular and "off-shape" posts...LOTS of options...need accurate measurements for minimizing waste and improving efficiency for workers on site.

 

Spacings differ on span & load..therefore beam size does not necessarily dictate stirrup number within a beam.

 

Chief does offer the total length of stirrups required but it is a number which the formula is "hidden" and is not necessarily accurate due to assumptions within the software which we, as users, cannot change.  A stirrup length for a particular wrap pattern can be easily double what Chief produces.

[Renerabbitt]

3 hours ago, IvanCyr said:

Hey Rene,

 

I'm using this macro in the framing member defaults...just that engineering will have different beam sizes and rebar requirements. 

 

Engineering determines size and spacing of rebar.

 

Stirrups can be wrapped differently for 4/6/8/10 longitudinal bars/plus circular and "off-shape" posts...LOTS of options...need accurate measurements for minimizing waste and improving efficiency for workers on site.

 

Spacings differ on span & load..therefore beam size does not necessarily dictate stirrup number within a beam.

 

Chief does offer the total length of stirrups required but it is a number which the formula is "hidden" and is not necessarily accurate due to assumptions within the software which we, as users, cannot change.  A stirrup length for a particular wrap pattern can be easily double what Chief produces.

So I guess I am missing what the request is since a beam will not and will likely never be BIM based in this software nor do I think it should be( too uch potential for liability). 
So I guess I am wondering, what is the request? Since with a macro you could create variable inputs for yourself so you plug in your engineering parameters and the beam could output based on those variable inputs using comments/manufacturer/code/ or custom_fields etc. ?