TheKitchenAbode

Have mixed feelings on in-home presentations like that. Certainly if you do not have an office then there is no choice. All our presentations are done at the studio where everything is setup to work correctly. Undoubtedly this type of presentation leads to many questions concerning materials. In the studio I can just reach over and show them the real thing or an alternative.

The other thing I have found is that most people's home screens are so far of colour calibration that they can make your design look really awful, especially if you are focused on the interior design elements. May undermine your effort.

Graham

Without stepping on a hornets nest you are putting together a system that is in the top say 5% group as it relates to consumer type machines. If cost is not an issue then why not, go for it and enjoy the ride. If cost is an important consideration then a good understanding of your needs is required. I run on systems that have at best 20% of this horsepower without any problems whatsoever and no complaints. However, I do not have a need to run camera views with shading and line smoothing. Always work with vector views even during client presentations, its just easier to see the structure this way. I then have Raytrace's prepared in advance when we wish to see how things look with lighting and textures.

Next step up is Xeon processors and multi-graphics card configurations.

Graham

Could be on the edge in creating a new product!!!

A concrete precast plank or module, prewired say 1" below the surface, foam insulation below to keep the heat on the desired surface. Install where desired, on-grade or above, Connect together and enjoy the warmth and snow melting, decks, walkways, balconies.... Not dissimilar to a prewired gypsumboard (drywall) panel for radiant heat ceiling applications in electrically heated homes (if they are still around).

Graham

I was thinking the same thing just after I pressed "Post". In slab heating would be ideal, deck could be used all year round, especially when there's a hot tub.

Graham

Interesting application. Did you have to do anything special with the construction or concrete mix to address potential expansion/contraction issues or upheaving through freeze/thaw cycles?

Could be a bit cool on the feet in the morning but the mass could be a nice heat retainer in the evening.

Graham

Agree Doug, I may have been a bit liberal with that term. It was intended to describe in general the process of taking the primary data such as vectors, textures, etc., (all those 1's & 0's) and performing whatever computations are necessary to build the image we see on our monitors. I have in my mind viewed this as the rendering process regardless of whether or not the rendered image is present in 2D or a 3D simulation. I guess one could argue that as we see the 3D image on a monitor that it is in reality a 2D image, there really is no depth (3rd dimension) capability in the monitors we use.

This probably won't resolve the terminology issue but hopefully it will help in interpreting my thoughts.

Many Thanks,

Graham

A method for users that do "Not" require framing details.

Change framing material definition to "Glass", "100% Transparency".

Float any object into place.

Use "Material Regions" to reconstruct finish around object.

Graham

Hi Joe. Saw that last night in your posting, will definitely give it a try. Thanks for sharing.

Graham

We are all in complete agreement on this. Unfortunately there appears to be no global way to handle this. One must first create an opening using say the pass-through tool, place the object into the opening and then go to the other side of the wall and patch it with something. I usually just float in a partition set to the same material and thickness of the finish. You would need to test this as it may have a negative effect on material lists or some other function you require.

There are some other work around methods described in recent posts on wall niches. But they also have limitations and some negative impact on other automated functions.

I was hoping that there was a setting in Material Regions tool that would allow you to toggle on/off the wrap around an opening function, but apparently this is not available.

Looks like it's up to the programmers.

Graham

Have the same issue. Integrated HD4000. A6 fine, A7 freeze (Assertion Failure). Have 8GB ram. Even tried reducing resolution to lowest setting & 256 colors. Still freezes. Updated all drivers, played with core settings, nothing worked. Pretty sure as Tech has reported that there is some software glitch. Will wait for their fix before spending $$$. Fortunately affected computer is a backup.

Graham

That's what I thought from playing around with it. It seems to disengage if you move the region away from the wall but it must be an inch or two away. Otherwise it snaps back and recognizes the opening.

Graham

Apologies for being such a "Pest".

Is there a way to toggle the Material Regions tool so one can either have it recognize an opening or disregard it? 

Thanks,

Graham

You are absolutely correct Doug. There is a lot going on as to how objects & elements are being treated, rendering is only one of many considerations. My comments were not intended to imply there was anything wrong with the software. It was just to provide some possible insight as to how the rendering is being dealt with. I believe that this may be useful in cases where rendering is the primary objective. As with any of these manipulations one must always check thoroughly to ensure that any negative side effects are acceptable. As you indicate, forcing or using elements outside of their intended use will most likely result in unforeseen consequences. The most significant are likely the framing computations and the material lists as an example. I strongly recommend that users utilize the appropriate built-in tools wherever possible to ensure plans & designs are of highest degree of consistency and integrity. These manipulative techniques should only be used as a last resort.

This is purely conjecture on my part but I suspect that when one uses a predefined element such as a pass-through, door, window, etc. placed into a standard wall type that for rendering purpose the algorithms (software) see these as special items in order to adjust things so the wall surface does not extend into them. Possibly my use of the term Rendering Algorithm may be to blame for any misconceptions. Somehow out of all of the detail within a plan something has to determine what is to be rendered and what will not be rendered. To compute everything in its entirety, visible or not, would not appear to be the most efficient way to do it.

Graham

Thanks Joe, it's all in good fun!

I did suggest in another post that you use "(Almost)" in your heading.

Graham

For followers you may wish to jump over to the two new threads "Walls - A New Way of Building a Plan" & "Rendering Algorithms - They Define What You See". I think you will find many of the answers you are looking for.

Graham

For followers you may wish to jump over to the two new threads "Walls - A New Way of Building a Plan" & "Rendering Algorithms - They Define What You See". I think you will find many of the answers you are looking for.

Graham

The only instance I can see where you may wish the shelf to protrude beyond the cabinet face is for a microwave shelf in an upper cabinet.

Graham

I just posted a new thread "Rendering Algorithms - They Define What You See" in my attempt to explain at the software level what is most likely happening here.

Graham

There has been a lot of discussion lately concerning the placement of objects within wall cavities and how to get these to render correctly in a camera view. We have all floated an open faced cabinet into a wall and been disappointed that the wall is shown passing through the cabinet. Why should this be? The wall is there, the cabinet is there so everything needed to generate (compute) the view correctly is there. It's likely due to the Rendering Algorithms and the parameters the programmers set in order to maximize rendering times. 

Why spend time computing data when it is not within the cameras view, makes sense. This methodology is also applied to objects and predefined elements such as wall types. A standard interior wall type, drywall-stud-drywall, appears to have a default rendering plane, the drywall face. As such any element or object behind this rendering plane will not be computed, only objects in front are taken into consideration. This is why the wall extends into our open faced cabinet.

To get the object to render as we intend the rendering plane must be shifted further into the wall or better still disengaged. It's like setting the clipping in a camera view or a cross section elevation. You are defining a plane that determines what is displayed and what is to be ignored. Although Chief does not provide a specific setting for this you can with the Glass House tool see the effect. The rendering plane has been disengaged, all objects and elements are included in the rendering algorithms and as such they are visible. For speed and visual purposes they have restricted the format to monotone & lines.

So we do know that the capability is there. The challenge is how can we exploit this to get our renders correct. Obviously we need to somehow shift the rendering plane, but unfortunately there is no specific setting for this. Although this is true there is actually a relatively easy way to do this. For example, a standard interior wall type with 3 elements has its rendering plane defined by the exposed drywall surface. However a frame wall type with 1 element has its surface rendering plane defined by the stud face. With this wall type any object in front will be rendered correctly. Need to move the plane further back, just make the wall thinner. Need to disengage, make the frame material glass. With the Material Region tool you can now rebuild the drywall without altering the rendering plane as the polyline material will be considered to be in front and therefore rendered.

I am certain there are many other ways to manipulate this to our advantage. Looking forward to all commentary.

Thanks,

Graham

That's a great way to do it. It looks like most of the difficulties everyone is having with these niches or any other element that penetrates the cavity is related to how the software rendering algorithm's function. They appear to be set to only compute visible surfaces in order to speed things up. With a standard wall type with default finishes the surface for computational purposes is the drywall face, therefore any data concerning on object that lies behind this surface is not taken into consideration. Starting with a frame wall by default sets the stud face as the surface and therefore any element in front of this will be computed. As you can define the stud material as glass you now have an invisible/transparent wall, likely how they developed the Glass Shower Wall Tool.

Building a few standard wall variations as you have done and saving to the library takes care of everything and provides complete control over all surfaces and best of all every element is included in the rendering algorithm.

Should post your above description under a separate heading for all to see. "The Ultimate (Almost) Wall"     

I left "(Almost)" in there because I know that within a few minutes someone will identify a shortcoming with this technique. We just have to accept the fact there is no such thing as "Perfect". The best we can do is to continue to drive in the right direction down this never ending road.

Graham

Just putting this out for general comment.

I have noticed in my brief time of exposure to this forum that it contains a wealth of invaluable knowledge contributed to by participants from many differing fields of endeavor. The diversified nature of Chief Architect with it's many differing tools and methods, results in techniques that are highly unique to a particular users needs and area of focus.

Under the forums current structure this uniqueness is often overlooked. For example, there has been a lively discussion headed "Wall Niche" containing many differing ways to accomplish this. They all differ, but are in themselves all valid when one takes into account the commenters needs. From the posts it appears that contributors are from at least 3 or more differing fields of endeavor; Architectural, Interior Design (my field) and General Construction. Just wondering if there was a way to bring this to the forefront so users and forum participants may narrow down more rapidly techniques that may be more suitable to their specific needs or participate in discussions more focused in their area of endeavor. Please do not construe this as a desire to segregate the forum, input from all fields is vital and required, and everything should to be vetted from varying perspectives.

An easy way to accomplish this might be to add a field description in the Topic Title.

Wall Niche (Framing)

Wall Niche (Architectural)

Wall Niche (Interior)

Something like this could be quickly adopted.

I am certain there are many other suggestions or comments, looking forward to hearing them.

Graham

Anxious to try the fix. Have HD3000 that freezes when Material Definition tool is used in elevation and/or camera view. Otherwise everything else works fine.

Graham

Please be aware that this thread was originally started when X7 was still in beta testing.  Since then we have fixed a number of problems that would have resulted in crashes as well as slow downs.  The X7 release should be much better then the beta with regards to both of these issues.

 

If you are still experiencing any crashes or slow downs, please report these problems directly to our tech support team.  They will need to get more information from you regarding your system, what it is you are doing, and the plans you are working with.  Usually, these are not the kind of issues that can be resolved based on random comments made on a forum.

If I may say so, there are many times where we are not sure if it is a technical issue or technique based issue. Putting our experiences out for general discussion helps in the determination of this. Hopefully this will ensure that Tech Support spends their time on issues that have the greatest probability of being truly deserving of their attention.

Graham

Nice refinement of the concept I posted @ 1:04pm today under "Wall Niche"

Graham