Deck over foundation room. What is best way to represent floor/ceiling structure details?

[TommyGsWorkshop]

Hey all-thanks for taking time to look into this.  I'm an average Chief Architect user, so any coaching will help. 

 

I have an addition to my house which has a deck over a foundation room.  The roof/floor framing between the foundation and deck levels is very complex given the number of framing layers (4), sheathing (2) and EPDM with sloping for water runoff.  I'm wondering if those can be represented effectively as actual floor/ceiling structure, or if it's best to just represent in CAD details or possibly as symbols (I know enough to be dangerous here).  I'm trying to let CA generate the sill plates and rim joists, which generates the other layers that need to be removed so they don't clutter the manual framing of the foundation room roof and deck floor structure.  You'll see in the image of the floor structure material layers panel (attached) that there are 8 material layers. The effort to remove the auto generated framing has me thinking there has to be a better way.  Many of the structure defaults are different between the "as built" house and the addition, so I've been getting tangled up switching my defaults (probably not doing correctly).  I've set the addition as framing group 2.

 

I've experimented with deck, balcony and porch room types, but each runs me into a dead end as I try to properly represent the floor/ceiling structure.  

 

I've included some views of my floor structure details along with a camera view from within the foundation room showing some of the manually placed floor joists, but no deck above (yet).  You'll also see the project overview image to get an idea the finished look.  I did not create detail for the floor/ceiling structures in the overview plan.

[TommyGsWorkshop]

appears I've found the topic no one can help.

[JiAngelo]

In your first picture you highlighted.layer #1 and framing is checked. 

Uncheck framing for each layer except #2, #6 and #8.  Autoframing should then only joist frame those three layers and treat the others as sheet goods.  This might give you the floor detail you want but it wont give you the slope on layers 2-6.

 

Personally I'd choose to represent this as a cad detail because...

--Layers 7&8 are a standard flat deck.

--Layer 6 is a rafter with a 1/4" slope on top of the deck. 

--Layers 3-5 are secured to Layer 6 and sloped.

--Layer 2 is reverse sloped 1/4" to bring the deck surface (Layer 1) back to level.

--Layer 1 is level (but I've never seen 3.5" thick decking, so I'm wondering if layers1 and 2 are reversed?)

 

2nd alternative.  Combine layers 2-6 as a single framing layer sum of each layers depth.  Then cross section that joist and.draw the sloped layers manually.  Because typically when we build these types of roofs we cut the angled rafters out of one larger rafter so that we have the top(2) and bottom(6) matching slopes to bring the finished deck back to level. (Note the sum of layers 2&6 plus a saw blade is 7-1/4".)

 

Hope this helps.

Edited Saturday at 10:55 AM by JiAngelo
Typos

[johnny]

I’m going to give you some hard-earned advice....don’t build this the way you’re planning if you’re in any kind of semi-wet or snowy environment.

 

Earlier in my career as an architect, I designed a number of homes with terraces built over occupied living space. I loved the aesthetic...clean lines without protruding decks...but what I didn’t fully account for at the time was how these assemblies perform long-term. Over time, vibration and live loads inevitably lead to small penetrations, and water has a way of finding even the tiniest path through waterproofing layers.

 

I ended up spending countless hours...sometimes doing the work myself...tracking down and fixing leaks to make things right for my clients. In my experience, the only truly reliable way to build this type of condition is with a concrete layer (even lightweight) incorporating Xypex. Beneath that, you should have a waterproof membrane, and another membrane above. I also recommend running the top membrane up adjacent walls at least 24 inches...I’ve seen failures occur right at those wall transitions.

 

If the client wants a decking surface, use pressure-treated sleepers installed parallel to the roof slope. That said, the best-performing finish is typically an exterior paver or tile system. As for modeling this in Chief Architect, I’d approach the deck using a roof plane. Most of the detailed work, however, will need to be developed in 2D CAD.

[TommyGsWorkshop]

Big thanks to those who replied.  You confirmed what was starting to become evident-that I was trying to represent something too far outside the scope of CA's design methodology.  I also invested in an hour of 1:1 support and got the same advice.  It left me a little deflated, but I also realize CA is much more efficient within the scope of building design vs. CAD but my design is pushing the bounds.

 

@JiAngelo-sorry I didn't provide more explanation on the layers.  I didn't represent the deck planking in the floor structure, so that led you astray a bit.  Below are a couple detail views I ended up creating in Solidworks that better represent the actual layers of the structure (if you're bored-LOL). 

 

@johnny Completely understand your advice.  It's been one of my worries since inception.  My engineer designed the floor structure with an architect backing up for the overall low slope roof design.  Deck framing is designed to allow for a certain amount of roof maintenance if/when the time comes.  Hell-If I can talk my wife out of putting in a pool, I may allocate the funds to putting a proper room with roof in place of the deck in the next 10years.  We'll see.

Edited Tuesday at 12:30 AM by TommyGsWorkshop