mgianzero

So I finally got pretty much what I was looking for for those that would like to see. I took some ideas from various people (thank you for your help). However, I ended up not creating two sets of walls using the "no room definition" attribute. Rather, I stuck to using railings but found out how to paste doors inside of a railings. It looks mostly what I was looking for, although I could't get the front doors to work since it would change even the lower panels to windows. Also, the underside of the deck is not exact but close - planking direction inside house is wrong and underside beam supports are not correct. But it's good enough for my demonstration purposes. Here are the plans for anyone who wishes to see. Teahouse Plans.zip Marc

Very interesting. I did not know that. Thanks Glenn!

Yes! That looks very close. How exactly do you do that? - 2 walls in the same space. Does one wall sit on top of the other one? And what were your wall types defined to be? I was attempting to do something like that using a pony wall, but couldn't get it to work like I wanted.

Darn - I like seeing how others do things by playing around with their plans. But CA is funny if you don't start with a clean template, you end up with all sorts of other unneeded info in your files. Yes, I've done some designs before with open below to make a "false" type ceiling. I did something similar to that in a home to make a sort-of trey ceiling. But actually the roof design was never really my biggest concern. It was the drawing of the single layer T&G inset panel walls that was my biggest issue. I felt I was almost there using the railing / fencing technique that surrounds a deck with an overhang since it looks almost what I wanted except for the ability to insert Shoji windows (or really any type of window) in this single layer wall. I also had it raised up on a deck as it's foundation which is almost exactly what I have. So I guess your saying it's better to define a single layer wall type with T&G panels and then you can insert any style window. But then manually add the perimeter framing around each 4 foot wide T&G panel set, correct?

Ryan, Okay ... I think that's looking more like it. Can you attach your plan so I can study it?

Yes Eric. Even though I figured out how to make the lower walls look mostly correct with T&G paneling, I wanted the upper half of these panels to really consist of shoji screens or windows that open if possible. It's not critical that they open, but I was trying to show homeowner some landscaping options from home that leads to the existing tea house on property. The tea house structure doesn't have to be too accurate, but I was hoping I could show the decking that holds this structure with somewhat accurate planking offsets with decking fascia board around it. The entire tea house stands roughly one foot above a concrete block wall that is also about one foot tall. You can see it in the actually picture I included in the original post. Marc

Sorry but I did not purposely mislead you here. That picture in original post is the ACTUAL teahouse that is on the property that I am trying to draw. So assumptions were made that it was more of a traditional framed shed with redwood paneling on the outside and it is not. That's why I said I could not build this with traditional walls with layers, but instead I was using "fencing with railing" as my walls.

Yes, I think you're understanding me better here. They are "inset panels" of T&G and they are 4 feet wide and 3 panels in a row on each side of tea house to make a 12 foot wall. There is no sheathing, but merely the T&G panels are seen from inside and outside. Problem with using railing/fencing as walls is that I cannot insert windows inside railing or fencing. This structure is really just a fancy gazebo - single walls with T&G paneling. But is has shoji style windows and doors on it.

I know I am not explaining myself here very clearly. That is why I provided a plan for everyone to see. Actually, it is NOT tongue and groove OVER framing. They are tongue and groove panels that have a 3 1/2" frame AROUND the perimeter of the panels much like that you would find on a privacy fence. A close example would be that of a "lattice fence" in CA. However the perimeter framing is 3 1/2" instead of the standard 2 x 2".

Ryan, Although I appreciate your efforts, this is not what I am trying to do. What makes this building a little different is that it is NOT a typical dwelling with framing covered with sheathing. Rather, it is a single depth tongue / groove panel wall with framing as part of the wall. Also, it is NOT a two story building although it may look from it from the exterior. If you are familiar with Japanese tea houses, they can have a unique raised vaulted roof but all single story - much like a gazebo. I think you'll see what I am trying to do if you look at my plans thus far. Although I need windows above the panels and making these "railing style" walls split, like pony walls, doesn't allow me to define the lower half with paneling and the upper half with shoji windows. Marc

David, I really appreciate your efforts. However, I think I mostly got it by using railings and posts with tongue & grove paneling. This looks more of what I'm going for: However, I still have a few problems I need to solve: 1) I really want the top half of the walls to show windows that open. Right now I have no windows. Windows are almost like shoji screens (with opaque plexi-glass and multi-paned). How do I do that? 2) The deck planking needs to extend beyond the actual teahouse, but off center (21 " on two sides and 18" in front and almost flush in the back). 3) The deck support joists need to support the overhang and almost flush to the planking all around with a deck fascia board around the perimeter. 4) I obviously haven't placed the raised roof yet. I will do that after I get it to look more what I want. Here's my attempt so far ... Teahouse plan.zip

Perhaps I didn't explain myself very well. I think I can make the roof design with two levels as David suggested above. But it's the walls that I find tricky. Each wall is made of 3 panels (tongue & groove) that are framed by 1x3's and each framed panel is then screwed to each other in line. So it's not a typical wall you'd find as part of a house or even a garage or shed (with wall types that include both framing and sheathing) on different layers but, instead, within the same layer, juxtaposed to each other - framing and panels. Then, the entire tea house sits on top of a deck supported by floor joists on piers. So it's also not a typical deck that surrounds the house but rather fully supports the tea house on top. Marc

Wanting to model a simple "teahouse" like structure on the property near house plan in order to determine more of the terrain landscape. It's mostly made of three 4 foot wide simple tongue & groove 1/2" panels with a simplistic 2-level roof design as shown here: I thought it would be easy, but didn't see an easy way to do it. Ideas? Marc

Yes, I'm getting a better gasp of things here. I'm using the paint can for just changing wall colors - it's fast and isn't a concern since it doesn't change the wall thickness. When I'm using a veneer such as stone or tile, I create a totally new wall type with the appropriate thickness. If I end up changing a majority of the wall colors to the same color, then I might just change the color of the drywall like you suggested.

Bingo! That worked. I actually did not "paint" the walls like many CA experts told me not to do since that can cause problems. But I didn't want the walls to have discrepancies in thickness due to a paint color change. So I figured the best way to do this was to redefine the wall type to have an outer wall paint color of 0" thickness which now causes Chief to not wrap the drywall around the windows properly. So I gave it a thickness of 1/16". But now my wall thicknesses are different again. So then what is best way to change the wall colors? Now I'm again confused about the best way to "paint" walls in CA. Do I shrink the drywall thickness by 1/16" of an inch so that I can add a 1/16" paint layer on it? That seems a little awkward.

Nope, it didn't work and I never moved that window. As a matter of fact, it shows the framing on ALL of the windows in the house, not just that one window. I've rebuilt the wall framing, with no success. As a matter of fact, I have automatically build wall framing selected. Am I doing something wrong? Here's the plan to analyze (without referenced files due to size limits): House with window framing showing.zip Marc G.

I'm hoping this is just a simple solution to something I am just overlooking here. I was working on this house and the windows are recessed into the walls with no interior casing as shown in an earlier plan here: But since then I've done loads of changes to the plans and, despite all my window settings being identical, I can now see the framing around the windows in all my rooms like here: Any idea what I did and how to correct this? Marc G.

I guess I spoke too quickly here. Now I remember reading somewhere where CA mentioned that lowering a ceiling can effect the floors above and below and I believe I had tried it this way and this what happened ... As we see here, my roof planes are now not looking correct. So what do I do to fix this?

Okay. My bad. However, this is not just for interior renderings. One of these ceilings, the one in hallway seen in Camera 1, is most likely going to at least partially come out. It is a 7-inch "soffit" like area with lighting and one HVAC duct inside. We are wanting to display the actual framing underneath so as to know what needs to change inside this lowered ceiling. Probably end up moving the HVAC system altogether. Obviously there'll be a structural engineer on the project, but the county wants blueprints, specifics of what is there and what needs to come out.

Okay, I did it your way and it appears to work! But the reason I did it the other way, using ceiling definition, is because CA actually mentions that in both their Tutorial Guide here: and they also describe it in their Reference manual here: So maybe I should just ignore their recommendations? I don't know. This could just be a novice's mistake here. I was also thinking about using soffits as part of my lowered ceiling, but then I would have to create another surface under the soffit to show the ceiling texture. And I also didn't know if the framing for this structure would look correct.

No, I thought about the no locate too as a possible "bug" to this problem too. But it didn't change anything either. Well, I had it as an invisible wall, and several told me not to use one as it doesn't work well with lowered and trey ceilings. I'm also guessing that invisible walls vs room dividers are considered pretty much the same thing and not recommended here. I guess I can play with it again. But I also tried using a doorway in the two other adjacent walls to the kitchen and I had the same problem with those walls too - the dropped ceiling does not align properly with the head jam of the doorway. Frustrating. I'll continue to play with it.

Okay, I think I got a little too wordy in my last reply and it makes it hard to follow. I think I still have a problem here. So I'll be more concise. Look at my plan here at both lowered ceiling doorways and tell me why one looks correct and the other does not and all settings, to my knowledge, are identical? lowered ceilings not working.zip In "Camera 1", you'll see the lowered ceiling looks perfect, but in "Camera 2" you'll see that the ceiling does not protrude all the way into the head jam. Why is this? And to further complicate the picture, if I put just an exterior casing on the second doorway (Camera 2) the problem is fixed, but I don't want to use any casing.

Sorry that I have not responded sooner as I was the original poster, but didn't have time to explore all what was said in this thread until now. So I tried what has been suggested here. It seemed to work great in the first lowered ceiling area (hallway) but not in the second. See below. 1). In the 1st example, I have a hallway with a lowered ceiling entering a sunken living room. The ORIGINAL plans (from 1967) call for the ceiling to be 7' 6" in the hallway, so since the tile flooring is 1/2", I am assuming I need to lower the ceiling by 6 1/2". In the plan I provided, the hallway opening is already using a door opening to separate the hallway from the adjacent room. If I lower this wall opening to the level of the newly lowered ceiling in hallway as suggested (I believe it is 90 1/2"), I seem to now experience some z-fighting at the top of the doorway as it seems as though two materials are attempting to occupy the same space. So that didn't work for me. So what am I doing wrong here? What DID work for me was to use Graham's (TheKitchenAbode) suggestion above and remove the ceiling textured finish from the lowered ceiling (6 1/2") and then create a CAD polyline that follows the perimeter of the room and convert that to a polyline solid very thin (I chose 1/8") and then used my ceiling texture on that surface and extended the ceiling to include the doorway jam on the top surface. The doorway opening height can be anywhere between 90 1/2" and 96" and it still looks the same. Not ideal as you still see some of the texture's thickness on the edges, but looks pretty good. See my pic here: 2). In my 2nd example (the trey ceiling) an acceptable solution appears to be more complicated. I first converted my invisible wall to a doorway like many had suggested. But now my ceiling seems to intersect the doorway in the middle of the jam, like here: So what's strange is that I did almost the exact same thing to two different areas of the house and I can't seem reproduce the same results. Even if I delete this trey ceiling and just do a lowered ceiling, I still have the same issue with the ceiling surface not completely covering the doorway. So what am I doing wrong here? If I could guess as to the cause, it appears that I'm having more issues with the auto-building of attics wall that are not aligning again. Perhaps someone can take my plans and modify them to do what I'd like and I can review it.

I have a few areas in this house that have dropped ceilings which contain some of the HVAC ducting and lights. When I try to drop these ceiling areas as suggested in the tutorial, by editing the ceiling finish dbx, the ceiling looks fine from below, but not from the sides. See these two areas where I have a lowered ceiling, one in the hallway here: and another in the kitchen area with a trey ceiling: The other way to do this, I guess, would be to create soffits spanning these areas. But a soffit has the same material on all sides. So then, how would I "paint" just the bottom of the soffit the same texture as the ceiling? Attached is my plan with angled hash markings on plan view designating the two areas that have lowered ceilings. HAB (ceilings, stairs).zip

No I didn't until you mentioned it. Thanks!