mLongChief

17 hours ago, 5Design said:

Just at a loss here.  I can go through and add each of the headers / beams as I need to, just a pain.  It has something to do with the wall type as when I changed the wall with the 2 car garage to a 6" wall, it doesn't do it.

 

Looks like the brick layer for that wall has been set to be a framing layer. Open up that particular wall for specification and check its wall type. The Brick-4 wall type its using has the brick layer marked to be framing. Unchecking the Framing checkbox for that layer should resolve that issue.

17 hours ago, 5Design said:

It's not doing the roof framing right, either.  But that's just a Chief thing (I'm guessing).

I'm assuming the issue with the roof framing is that ridge board sticking through the bottom of the roof plane? Seeing as you're using manual roof planes, you could reduce the size of the ridge's depth in the lower roof planes so they'll fit within the roof cavity. It's probably sticking out since this lower roof plane is mostly in the overhang portion, so it's not properly trimming the ridge. It does look like a bug, so I'd report that to our technical support team.

On 1/31/2024 at 6:14 PM, Larry_Sweeney said:

Michael.........................Thank you. I've been away from my work most of the day. Your information and help is much appreciated.  There's one item I didn't mention earlier and I thought I should while I'm thinking about it. When I was first building the simplified plan I just built roof planes "A" and "B". After they were in place, with "B" roof planes being checked to overframe, I had CA frame the roofs and the "B" roof planes overframed correctly. I then mistakenly deleted the framing. After that (and not moving the roof planes in any way) I could not get the overframing to work. I experimented with a number of different roof planes and overframing. When I would get a setup to overframe, I would then erase the roof framing and then try to rebuild the overframing. It wouldn't work. Could this be a bug or is it something on "my end"? In all cases I would just rehighlite the roof planes to build the framing. Not moving the planes in any way.

That's something I haven't heard of before... If you're only deleting the framing and not adjusting the roof planes, then the overframing should come back upon rebuilding the framing. Following your steps on my end, of making a valid overframing case, deleting the framing (either through the Delete Objects Dialog or selecting them all and deleting), and then rebuilding the framing (with either the Build Framing Dialog or selecting them all and using Build Framing for Selected), the overframing would come back like it was before.

My only theory as to what could've happened is the roofs somehow got rebuilt and were no longer marked as overframing, but by the sounds of it you were checking that. If you have that plan showcasing that issue, I'd send it into tech support for them to take a look at it, they'd be able to determine if it's a bug or not.

1 hour ago, Larry_Sweeney said:

Since no one answered this thread up to this point I thought I would do the "correct" thing and send a simplified plan of my problem. What I'm attempting to do is over frame roof planes "B" onto "A". I also want to over frame roof plane "C" onto "A", B" and "D". I can't get either of the roof planes to over frame. What am I doing wrong? Can CA do this? Suggestions will be much appreciated.

It's possible to get the overframing in this case, just takes tweaking the edges of the roof planes to get them into position. Usually when you run into the case of the shoe plates not generating, that means the edge of the roof plane isn't properly seated on the roof plane below it. What I do to get them seated properly is by selecting the edge of the overframed roof that I want a shoe plate along and use either the Place Roof Plane Intersection Point tool or Join Roof Planes tool.

The Place Roof Plane Intersection Point tool works some of the time, but with more complex situations it may not give the exact points I'm looking for. The Join Roof Planes tool works nearly all the time, but it does modify the lower roof plane's edge as well, so I have to move those edges back into place afterwards. It can be a bit tricky getting all the edges in place, but it is possible.

OverframedPlan.zip

2 hours ago, jtcapa1 said:

Thanks Michael,

You missed the subtle image difference.  The X-Bracing is good in terms of putting something between the floor trusses, but take a good look at it in 3d, you'll see that there is NO thickness to the actual X members.

 

I see what you mean. I agree that it should probably have some thickness as paper-thin bracing doesn't seem right, that's just how the cross/bridging option has always generated its 3D. Sounds like you've already reported this to Nigel, so thanks for sending it in!

20 minutes ago, jtcapa1 said:

I found a bug in the floor truss system.  Try putting in "blocking" and take a look in 3d.

I'm trying to use floor trusses more and more, but I still don't have a good understanding of the limitations.

For example cantilevering, or cantilevering for a deck.

BTW, I did report this bug to Nigel at CA.

 

What's the bug here? If it's that the blocking is displaying as cross bridging, then that's a setting on the blocking itself. Open the blocking for specification and change it's blocking type to either In-Line or Stagger. The Cross/Bridging option is what produces this unique 3D look. You can change what this option is set to for floor blocking by default in the Build Framing Dialog within the floor framing options.

13 minutes ago, Hammer7 said:

x14 Truss joist floor.pdf 16.64 kB · 2 downloads

A bit hard to exactly say what's going on. Are you trying to make automatic floor trusses? In X14, that isn't available and they'll have to be drawn in manually using the Floor/Ceiling Truss tool. X15 added in the ability to automatically rollout trusses within floors, ceilings, and roofs.

Another thing of note is that it appears you have your OSB layer set to framing. Setting that layer to framing will create framing members within that layer and manually drawn trusses will be placed on this layer since it's the top-most framing layer, which I'm assuming is something you don't want. Open up your Floor Structure Definition, which can be reached from your Floor/Ceiling Platform defaults (or can be accessed on a per-room or per-floor basis) and uncheck "Framing" for the OBS layer. Once "Framing" is unchecked for your OSB layer, you shouldn't have any issues drawing in your floor trusses.

2 hours ago, GeneDavis said:

I've a 17 meg file I tried compressing and I hope you can open it.  I didn't test it.

 

A cross gabled roof has lower side wings, one side with two pitches, and the framing requires the trusses to lay on as a valley set over the center bay scissor trusses.  I manually drew the roofs, drew the ceiling planes in the center bay for the scissors envelope, drew the trusses and drew the truss bases.  I only get one valley set lay-on before things go bust.  Uphill trusses do not generate between the truss base and the roof above, instead form inside the lower roof.

 

After poking around the plan for a bit, I noticed that the pitch of the truss bases didn't match the pitch of the lower roof. Changing the truss base's pitch to match the lower roof seemed to have fixed it, though I had to redraw the truss base on the right side of the building to get it to work.

13 minutes ago, SHCanada2 said:

i'm confused now. Where did i tell it to do rafters? the roof dbx shows trusses

Just now, Doug_N said:

No, you told it to do trusses, and it tried to do that.  When CA can't do trusses it fills in spaces with rafters, and that is when the system broke down because it didn't do that completely either. 

Just to expand on this, the automatic truss placement will only be able to place trusses in areas that have both a roof plane and ceiling plane present, as trusses need both in order to generate properly. In this case, the room is set to have no flat ceiling within itself and no custom ceiling is present, so the only structural space we have to work with is roof structure layer, which is only enough to fit rafters. If you want to force trusses in that space, you can manually place some, but that might not be ideal as they'll be exposed due to the lack of a proper ceiling plane.

Ideally, if the automatic trusses fail to build, we should fall back on rafter framing. Changing the roof plane to build with rafters like Doug suggested, it'll build the roof rafters properly, but we should automatically fall back to this better. I'd send the plan in so we can log and address cases like this better.

Hard to say exactly what the issue is without a plan. I'm assuming the issue in the images is the white wall framing members. My best guess is a layer in your walls is marked to be a framing layer when it shouldn't be. That Framing checkbox indicates whether or not the program will attempt to build actual framing within that layer. That checkbox for wall layers can be found within the Wall Type, on a per layer basis within that wall type.

The floor trusses is probably a similar issue, that your OSB floor layer checked to be a framing layer within your floor structure. Unchecking that for the OSB layer should prevent the trusses building within it.

11 hours ago, HumbulRenovator said:

Okay I just stumbled onto something w/respect to roof overframing! In some instances you may need two enable overframing on _both_ the "under" _and_ the "over" planes.  When I first tested out the feature I only needed to do it for the "under", but just on a whim I tried doing it on the over and all of a sudden the shoe plate appeared!

With the roof overframing option, it's designed to be enabled on the upper roof, the lower roof shouldn't have to be marked for overframing as well. The idea is that you're marking that particular roof to "overbuild" on any roofs below it. That would explain why the shoe plate didn't appear till the upper roof enabled roof overframing.

If the upper roof has overframing enabled and the shoe plate still isn't appearing, that usually means that the roof planes aren't joined together completely. Utilizing the Join Roof Edges tool or generating the Roof Intersection Points to get the roof edge into the proper location can help resolve that.

This is a bug within the X14 public beta and it should be fixed in the next update, 24.1.

It appears that the second floor room's Floor Structure is different than the default, in that the OSB layer is marked as the framing layer and the Fir Framing layer isn't. Checking the "Default" checkbox (which HumbleChief mentioned) has the Floor Structure match what the defaults are set to, which has the layers swapped for which is marked as Framing.

Either checking the "Default" checkbox to utilize the default layers, or changing which layers are framing layers in the Floor Structure of the second floor room has the floor framing use the other layer to generate framing for.

Hope that helps!

Automatic Platform Framing has been changed in X13 to follow the Platform Framing style of building more closely than mixing together both platform and balloon framing styles. If an open below section is partially along an edge of the platform, then we'll have the rim joist extend the entire length of this edge. This is where the behavior has changed from prior versions, where we used to always balloon frame along any open below sections that were inline with a platform edge.

If the open below section spans the entire length of the platform edge, then we still do balloon framing, if the "Allow Automatic Balloon Framing" checkbox is enabled in the Build Framing Dialog. If the checkbox is disabled, then we'll insert rim joists in this section to match with the rest of the platform framing style.

With "Allow Automatic Balloon Framing" On:

With "Allow Automatic Balloon Framing" Off:

If you wish to do balloon framing for only a section of the wall, this can still be achieved with the Platform Intersections controls within the Wall Specification, where you can set specific walls to balloon framing through the ceiling or floor. On one of the walls going alongside the open below, you can break the wall so a section of it is only going across the open below, set this section to "Balloon Through Floor Below", and you'll get the balloon framing along that section of the platform.

If you would like the program to work differently to this new behavior, then please submit a feature request. Hope that helps!

1 hour ago, HumbleChief said:

But that other truss has me stumped.

Definitely a strange truss being generated, haven't seen one build like that before. Seems like it's related to the problem described in another other thread recently, but what makes it seem different is that the truss enters and exits the lower roof. If you pull back the lower roof and regenerate the truss, it builds properly (after rebuilding the truss the roof can be moved back into place). Sounds like you're already sending in a report on it, which is good so we can look into it further.

Hi Bill,

The cause of the lockup seems to be a roof plane that only consists of a single line. Upon removing the plane, Chief is able to frame the roofs properly. Despite that, it shouldn't lock up like it is, so it'll be addressed in a future update.