AlvarD

I've managed to identify the source of all the default materials in Chief, except for one. The Roof -> Skylight Frame, which has a default of "Asphalt Roofing", which is not even a material. When you select it to see what it's using for default, it shows "Asphalt Roofing - Black", which is a material.  I can't find any material default DBX where anything is specified as "Asphalt Roofing", so I don't see where I would go to change this. I've attached the plan that matches the material defaults of the screenshot below. 

BTW, here are the sources of all the roof materials, with the actual "Roof" material being the only one which doesn't pick up a default from anywhere else and you specify in the Roof Defaults DBX. 

Materials Usage Cross reference.plan

9 minutes ago, solver said:

 

I believe the Flush Eave uses the material from your default exterior wall.

Thanks Eric and Mick . I see it now. It would be SO much easier if Chief was consistent and used the same naming convention everywhere. For example, in this case, instead of just saying "Default: Asphalt Roofing", it could say "Default Exterior Wall Surface: Asphalt Roofing", like it does for many other materials, so you can figure out where they are really set. 

That takes care of the Flush Eave, so now where does the "Default: Color - Bone" come from for the Soffit/Eave and Skylight Shaft?

I'm trying to understand the not-so-obvious default material assignment process on X10. I understand how a lot of the defaults in the Roof Defaults Materials DBX are inherited, like the Ridge Cap, and Fascia, but there are others that I can't figure where the actual default is set in Chief. For example, in the attached pic the Soffit / Eave usees a "Default: Color - Bone", and the Flush Eave uses "Default: Asphalt Roofing", but I can't find anywhere in the Defaults Setting -> Materials panel, where "Color - Bone" or "Asphalt Roofing" are used or specified. 

I can change, for example the "Soffit / Eave" to something other than "Default: Color - Bone", and then if I want to revert back to the default, I can choose the "Use default material" box in the material selection, but HOW is the "default material" being defined as "Color - Bone"? 

I attached a dummy plan that I'm using to test out the material defaults. 

material_test.plan

Graham, thanks for the glass texture! It certainly looks much better than anything I had tried with PBR. 

Unfortunately, playing around with you plan has really shown me how woefully inadequate my current system is to do a lot of PBR optimizations. It takes me more than a minute from when I open one of your kitchen PBR cameras to when the render is complete, and any small change I try to do after that takes around 30-40 seconds minimum. It's very painful... I will definitely have to upgrade at some point, and from reading the results that you and others noticed in PBR render times after upgrading, I know it will help a lot! 

Thanks, Alvar

23 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Thanks Graham , looks like you have been Busy ! 

 

I certainly appreciate the Upload and time you've spent so we can all see how you have accomplished this.....

 

Mick

Totally agree. Very much appreciated!  

Alvar

2 hours ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Here is the latest interior PBR with reflective glass.

Graham, the kitchen render is looking awesome! Love the glass, the cabinets, and the lighting. I'm definitely interested in studying the materials and lighting that you used to achieve this. Any chance you can share some version of the kitchen plan? 

Thanks,
Alvar

11 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

One suggestion would be a nicer Texture for the Stone wall and perhaps a bump map for it , a BM for the sidewalk would help add to the realism too.

 

M.

Thanks guys. Mick, good point about the stone and BMs. Here's with a different stone and added BM for the stone, walkway and pavers. I agree it gives it more realism.

Graham, a while back you took the plan that I was using to practice the exterior PBR renders and added some landscaping and did a night time render, which I really liked. I had never done a night time render, so I took it as a personal challenge and learning experience to try to replicate it as much as possible. Thanks for the inspiration! Here's the result.

28 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

Here is the result after adding additional furnishings and decorative elements. All models are CA with the exception of the Edison light bulbs in the island pendants which are from 3D warehouse.

Another great render Graham!  It's amazing what a difference the furnishings and accessories make. With all that wine, I'm looking for the half-filled wine glass that you had in one of your other kitchens...lol  I really liked that, and I wish I knew how you did it... 

Your welcome.  The multiple light select and the Adjust button are definitely a big time saver! 

44 minutes ago, rlackore said:

 

I can't make that work. By selecting the Group row I can change Color, Used In, and Casts Shadows for all lights at once - but not Intensity. Maybe you know a trick I don't.

Did you expand the row? Here's a pic showing the light expanded, and lights 1 thru 8 selected and changed to 9lm. 

-Alvar

Thanks for the symbol Robert!  

You mentioned that it was very tedious to change the light output since you had to modify every light individually, but if you expand the light in the Adjust Lights DBX (with the arrow on the left of it), you can then group-select any, or all, of the 96 lights and change their intensity at once. 

5 hours ago, rispgiu said:

Great work Graham, I suppose the frustrating thing about all of this is that when we think we got a work around with PBR they'll launch updates and everything will change once again. 

Nice work indeed Graham!  As Giuseppe points out, a lot of this can change with the next release, but I do hope that they have listened to some of the issues in this thread with PBR and improve it's usability for X11. Graham, I especially like one of your suggestions of letting the user control whether the PBR render updates automatically when any changes are done, or on demand. For those of us who are still seeing 10s-15s delays in PBR rendering whenever we change anything, due to not having the latest and greatest HW, this would be a great help! 

5 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

 

I have had problems in the past when the same material name is duplicated in the plan material list, it can cause problems when using the eyedropper tool. It sees the material you want to paint as already having the same name and it does not apply the picked material.

To me seeing many materials with the same name in the Plan list has always been very confusing, and I think I've had the same problem with applying materials that you mentioned.  I'l prefer it if Chief required them to always have unique names. 

16 minutes ago, Kbird1 said:

Had a Quick Play and if you do it EXACTLY in the Order Eric does it works  ie :

 

Wall 1>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 2>paint siding>change material offset>Wall 3>paint siding>change material offset

 

If you paint ALL 3 walls with new siding then change the Offset on 1 Wall they All Change as All 3 are still set at the "Default Offset" for that Material ie it works similar to other CA Objects and Items in that Defaults are important...and Global...

 

Changing the Offset on each Wall as it is placed (must) cause CA to "see" it as a Different Material as not All Settings are the same, ie it has a similar effect to renaming the material to xxx_1 or xxx_2 or xxx_3.

I see. That was the difference. I was painting them all first and then trying to change it.  I guess having CA automatically create the other materials when it detects a change in one helps a bit, but like Graham said, it's hard to tell the different materials as they all have the same name... 

6 hours ago, AlvarD said:

 

Eric, if I could get it to work the way you show in your video, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, when I try doing exactly what you did (I tried it just like you did, making a copy of the Cedar Tongue & Grove and applying it to different walls), it doesn't work the same. For me, when I use the "Adjust Material Definition" on one of the walls to change the offset of the texture, it changes it for all the walls that have it. This is as I would've expected, since I'm changing the material definition, which is supposed to be global.

 

Could there be some other default/preference setting in X10 that perhaps can account for the difference in behavior between your video  and what I'm seeing? 

 

Thanks,

Alvar

I guess this, from the X10 reference manual, makes it pretty clear that different material offsets for different objects aren't currently supported, as it's a property of the material, rather than the Object, so different materials are needed to have different origins of a texture on different objects. 

Seems like a very basic CA program structure issue, so I doubt that they would entertain changing it, but I started a "Suggestion" thread in hopes they may consider it.

-Alvar

13 hours ago, Kbird1 said:

AFAIAA from playing around with this in the past , mostly with Tile like Graham, Textures and Patterns both reference the Grid Coordinates of 0,0 not the 0,0,0 Origin of the Object or Symbol in question , most likely done like this so everything in the "CA Universe" will Line up when needed but it causes issues as you've both pointed out.

 

Notice how all the paver joints line up.... even though  each paver strip is in a different position in the "Universe" , the yellow pyramid is at 0.0

Thanks Mick! Indeed the default of Textures and Patterns referencing the global Grid coordinate system of 0,0 make a lot of sense. It would be nice, if there was an OPTION, for things other than Symbols since they seem to be covered by the Global Symbol Mapping option, to control the texture offsets individually on each object. 

7 hours ago, solver said:

Adjusting offsets on multiple objects using a single material.

 

Watch on YouTube: http://youtu.be/SWPWsVBx4N4?hd=1

Eric, if I could get it to work the way you show in your video, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, when I try doing exactly what you did (I tried it just like you did, making a copy of the Cedar Tongue & Grove and applying it to different walls), it doesn't work the same. For me, when I use the "Adjust Material Definition" on one of the walls to change the offset of the texture, it changes it for all the walls that have it. This is as I would've expected, since I'm changing the material definition, which is supposed to be global.

Could there be some other default/preference setting in X10 that perhaps can account for the difference in behavior between your video  and what I'm seeing? 

Thanks,

Alvar

I submitted a suggestion on this to the "Suggestions" thread. Let's hope they are listening!! 

Yeah, I think you are right. Sounds like this one falls under the "request for new feature" category... 

Graham, the method you describe of copying the texture would certainly work, but it would be great if we didn't have to resort to that. From the description it seems like the Global Symbol Mapping option is there to address just that scenario. Perhaps it's a bug? Or I'm just misinterpreting the Global Mapping option...

I have a texture which I would like to have start at the same offset of 0,0 on every object that I apply the texture to, and from what I see in the Chief Manual  "Check Global Symbol Mapping to map the texture using the same origin on all objects. When unchecked, the origin is defined individually for each object". this should be the case if I have the Global Symbol Mapping in the Material DBX unchecked, but that doesn't seem to be the case. 

I defined a texture of a paver block, which when applied to a 4" wide polyline solid (the one on the left in the pic below) looks the way I want it. The problem is that if I apply it to another polyline solid, depending on where the origin of the polyline solid is, the application of the pattern is applied as if "Global Symbol Mapping" is checked. Checking or unchecking the Global Symbol Mapping button doesn't change anything.   

Plan is attached. 

Thanks,

Alvar

Chieftalk global symbol map bug.zip

21 minutes ago, Ridge_Runner said:

Nice, Alvar. I'm curious - what did you do to dramatically improve the stainless in the wall ovens and the fridge?

I changed the material to a "Predefined Metal", "Stainless Steel", NOT Brushed (so it's more like a Polished metal), and set the roughness to 15%. 

After reading thru the posts in this thread and applying some of the tips and techniques shared in it, I thought I would post three pics showing the results of adjusting lighting and materials on a kitchen using PBR, not because they are great examples of PBR renderings, but to show what a difference some minor changes can make. I also wanted to thank all the people in this CA community which are so generous with sharing techniques and tips, as well as provide helpful critiques, to help a rendering newbie like myself learn come up to speed quicker. To me, CA is a very good program, but what really makes it great is the CA community helping each other in the Chief Talk forums! 

The first pic is the basic render using the pendants, recessed, and under-cabinet light, with no sunlight. 

With some added area lights and sunlight. 

With material changes using some of Graham's techniques for the floor, counter-tops, cabinets and bar stools, as well updating the texture and bump map for the subway tile. Also changed the temperature of the sun and lights to warmer tones. 

-Alvar

12 minutes ago, TheKitchenAbode said:

PBR Higher Levels of Reflection & Gloss

 

Here is a technique to obtain higher reflectivity and gloss.

WOW Graham, this, and your light shadow depth control techniques are very creative AND very useful. Thanks for sharing them!! 

-Alvar