craig1234

18 hours ago, Alaskan_Son said:

based on this post, it sounds like you just confirmed what I demonstrated in my last post.  Without additional constraints dim 4 can be almost anything you want it to be.  You are still not making it very clear what we are solving for.  It seems that perhaps you are just demonstrating that you may not actually understand the geometry very well yourself and although you think you might’ve found the one answer, you just found one of MANY possible answers. 

There are no real unknowns, the arbitrary angle of the fourth wall determines everything else.  The trigonometry is trivial, chief just makes it more difficult than it needs to be to place the walls and then leave them unchanged while working on the rest of the structure. 

The original poster was simply stating that it is a needless limitation to not allow the user to anchor features, and if someone only uses architectural CAD they can't appreciate how much more advanced engineering CAD is. 

My original reply was simply supporting the original poster saying that engineering CAD has progressed with better tools while architectural design tools are still in the 90s.  It wasn't to say that it was a difficult geometry, the reply was that when there is even the oddest bit of unique geometry, chief makes even the most trivial process much more difficult than it needs to be.  People suggesting 'tricks and skills" like using the circle tool to draw intersecting circles a classic example of something that engineering CAD made obsolete 30 years ago but is still a mainstay of architectural design. 

On 4/1/2023 at 5:59 AM, GeneDavis said:

To the OP:  Have you tried using Chief CAD to draw your building lines?  Are you able to get the geometry needed?

 

Nail in all down in CAD, then draw walls and edit them to align precisely to the CAD.  It is the only way to get the precision needed when there are walls with irregular angles.

yes, this is exactly what i had to do, nail EVERYTHING down in CAD.  The wall that connects the two right corners in the breezeway is particularly problematic since it is just slightly off of alignment from the right wall of building 2.  with any dimension change on pretty much any feature, Chief would take the opportunity to dink with that wall.  very frustrating.

Thanks, yes.  It isn't just that walls snap, that is easily controlled by disabling snap while the wall is placed.  However, once all the walls are put in place, without the ability to lock or anchor a wall, even if snap is disabled during the wall placement, Chief will then prefer to snap that wall when windows and doors are added and located using precise dimensions.  the problem is compounded when adding (invisible) walls between the corners of the two buildings to form the breezeway.  To be clear, the problems all completely go away if all four walls are square.  the problem is because of the angled wall.  getting the wall in the correct location is not the problem, KEEPING it there is the problem.  it is like herding cats.

Quote

I'm just trying to clarify what the end goal is because I don't understand which dimension(s), angle(s), or point(s) we're trying to solve for.  In reading through the description it would seem to me that we're trying to make Edge 1 align with P6, but that would require Lines 1 and 2 being at different angles.  If we're simply trying to solve for Dim 4 on the other hand, then we don't seem to have enough information to work with since simply rotating Building 1 would allow that number to be just about anything by simply moving Building 2 up or down to suit.   And if we're simply trying to find the angles of the lower wall on Building 1 and the upper wall of Building 2, then again, we don't have enough information to work with without some clarification.  We can currently model to meet the limited specs given and use an infinite number of configurations even if we were to lock Angles A, B, and C at 90 degrees.

Sorry... building 1 is a part of another structure and is fixed, but we DO know the angle between building 1 and either of the two lines you have drawn. it is some arbitrary angle like 26.xx° degrees from the vertical.  There is nothing unknown that cannot be calculated using trigonometry.  the problem, and the reason for my agreement with the original poster, is that this is something which should be easily accomplished from within Chief, not using other tools or calculators.

On 4/1/2023 at 1:49 PM, Alaskan_Son said:

 

I agree with some of the others. Nothing about your situation should preclude you for doing it all in Chief.  In fact, although it might still require using a little CAD, I'm not sure it couldn't all be done with walls. I feel like perhaps you just might not have a handle on the tools and methods you can be using. 

 

That being said, you're diagram is a little confusing and your constraints aren't very clear to me.  You're attempting to explain something in a lot of words that would be better put in your diagram:

 

Does this look about right?  If so, can you clarify a few things?

1. Are Line 1 and Line 2 parallel?  If so, then I must not understand the intent or else Dim 1 and Dim 3 would match.
2. Is Angle C a 90 degree angle or is it unknown?
3. Should Dim 3 perhaps more accurately be placed right in line with Line 3 indicating that there's actually a potential pivot point where the wall meets that line?
4. Am I correct that Angle A and Angle B are unknown?
5. Am I correct that Dim 4 is unknown?
6. Anything else I'm missing or misunderstanding

thank you, yes this sums it up-- here are the clarifications on your items

lines 1 and 2 are indeed parallel

angles A, B, and C are all 90 degrees.  the two angles at P2 and the final corner are unknown

yes, dim3 has extension lines to show it is offset, but you are correct in that it is inline and the dimension from line 2 to edge 1

I had to derive dimension 4 using CAD as being dimension 3 plus dim4 minus dim1.  P6 is NOT in line with edge 1

sure, here is a diagram.  a dog trot is a covered area between two living areas, open on each end.  a.k.a.,  breezeway. 

here is a sketch from engineering CAD that i finally had to use to give me the dimensions that i could never get using chief.

there are three dimensions to the structure as you can see, and another five constraints (two 90 degree corners, one parallel (to setback), on forces the left edge to be aligned with the upper structure left corner, and one on the left and right tips of the structure in the dog trot)

Specifically, the constraints are the 20'2" setback which defines the angle and location of the right (actually the back) wall.  the front (left) wall is specified to be a fixed 33'.  the gap in the breezeway on the left (front) is 6 feet.  The bottom two corners are 90 degrees.  the bottom left of the upper structure and top right of the lower structure are constrained to be straight across from one another.

since the length of the bottom, right, and top are unknown, as are the top two corner angles I was unable to get this configured in Chief.  since nothing can be locked, all attempts to configure this just resulted in other walls moving.  I needed to have the engineering CAD give me the dimensions that i could then put into chief.   Once the exterior walls are eventually located in Chief, using dimensions to locate items like doors/windows, additional invisible exterior walls to adjust the roof line, etc.,  results in walls inadvertently sliding up and down the angled wall or something else changing.  Again, it seems that the inability to lock or anchor a feature severely hamstrings the user for no particular reason.

On 5/16/2020 at 2:57 PM, hamedDesighn said:

That's because you're only using chief

so lets say , um , we just want a wall dimension to be locked , this is very simple , because in a very complex REAL WORLD map , we don't have square walls we have off angle walls we have stuff that controlling them is a little bit hard , and suddenly when an important wall dimension changes anything become destructed it could be better if it was able to do that , like other software , like solidWorks constraint dimension system 

I have to absolutely agree that the inability to anchor or lock a wall is simply hamstringing the designer, and I don't think that people who have never used engineering tools can appreciate that fact.  For example, I currently have a project with a garage and a shop that meet at a wedge-shaped dog trot at some unknown angle.  (The main garage on the left, the shop on the right, the wedge dog-trot between them).  The shop is constrained by:

• The angle and location of the back wall.  the length of the back wall is a 'remainder'
• The length of the front wall.
• The left front corner defining the front wall and end (angled) dog-trot wall
• the back right corner
• The two right corners are forced to 90 degrees
• The additional length of the back of the dog trot compared to the front of the dog trot to form the wedge rather than a rectangle.
• The lengths of the back wall and of the left end (dog trot) wall are both 'remainders' 

So, two constrained corners, one constrained wall length, one constrained wall location, two constrained intersection right angles.... having two unknown length 'remainder walls' with unknown corner angles would be a trivial 1 minute layout in any engineering CAD program with the ability to anchor or lock corners and sides.  As near as i can tell it is impossible to do in Chief, but I would welcome someone showing me that i am wrong.