TEXT, ANNOTATION SET TOO COMPLICATED!


marklcc
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I set 10 anno-sets up in 10 minutes, its really a lot of just copying and checking what and how you want something to show.

yes. it can be done.... and i'll you bet you i can do that 10 annot set in 8:49 mins

 

if we're having a race in making annot set. and to see how many mouse clicks and dbx screen we can do in a minute span.

and have a 100% full upstanding of have how Annote set is done and whats need.

 

i dont think an Joe off the street can jump into a Indy car and pull off 1:20 Lap time in the Indy race track.

it would take him a little longer, if at all, he can figure out how to shift the gear in the indy car.

 

my point is.....

for user-friendly, and complexity, and for a beginner / novice user .....this is a challenge to grasp CA Annot method.

 

it took me a looooong time figure to use it. and its somthing that you cant just use it outta the box and adapt to your drawing practice.

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I agree Buzz,

 

Some of the techniques in Chief are way too complicated including, if not most especially, Anno Sets. The good thing is that once Anno Sets are learned and set up, they don't have to be changed very much in the future and their usefulness is undeniable.

 

It's also good to remember some of the posters on this forum represent a very elite user group and can sometimes forget about new users and the steep learning curve Chief possesses. They also forget that the percentage of users who even use Anno Sets, let alone understand them, could be a very small percentage of total Chief users. I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't a large percentage that doesn't even use Layers effectively but that's the nature of all of this kind of software - it's complicated. Is Chief more so? Maybe in some regards but there's no short cuts to learning any of the design software and as has been posted above Anno Sets, even though complicated, are a very powerful tool and once understood will save tons of time.

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.....posters on this forum represent a very elite user group and can sometimes forget about new users and the steep learning curve Chief possesses. They also forget that the percentage of users who even use Anno Sets, let alone understand them,....

this was my next point. you hitted!!!

 

like i said....i consinder myself an advanced Architectural CAD user, before started using CA. and learning from zero knowledge of it.

 

i have enough skill now (but still learning) to produce a set of design to construction plan.

 

i find that, as a new user CA, and as the subject of this thread....

TEXT, ANNOTATION SET TOO COMPLICATED!

 

up until today, and writing this post....

 

i did have a good unstanding of Annote Set, but never bother using it. i alway thought that im not getting the full picure on how to use it. and was missing steps or not doing it right.

 

after watching Wendy;s Annote video 1-10.  it validated to me that i do know the concept of CA Annot Set. (thanks, wendy for those awesome vid :))))

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Buzz, from what you posted of your work you are a very competent professional who knows how to produce construction documents. In the same way it appears you have a tight grasp of learning CADD software. To anyone who is skilled at your level, spend the 15 minutes it takes to get a clear understanding of Anno sets and win from the small amount of time spent on educating yourself (and it appears that you have done that). Because, that 15 minutes will pay for itself by hours of return on the investment.

 

When I am doing construction I sometimes run an extension cord out to a saw. Then I find I need a sander (or the jig saw) so I unplug the first saw and plug in the second saw. If I have to swap that cord one more time I run for the 3 way splitter for the cord so I can plug in both tools. If i don't I will end up switching that cord another 5 or 6 times in the next hour or two and I will lose time and momentum. This is the Anno Set equivalent on the job site. Sending a site plan to layout with the floor plan notes never needs to happen again (and for me it no longer does).

 

Chief is fairly easy to learn but difficult to master. I would say this is true of most things.

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Here's how I see it:

 

Yes, Anno Sets could be a hair simpler.  Maybe.  And maybe not.  Making them "simpler"  would have deprived some of function.  Simpler exactly the way the OP suggested - by having a single layer for all annotations, that are listed separately at the main Anno Set definition screen, just like Cad Layer.  That's actually the way I work!  But not everyone does.  I was a tester during that development cycle, and I know they came down on the side of power.  The ability to import and export Annotation Sets and Layersets was provided specifically because of that.  With that greater amount of control and power came a longer setup time.

 

So yes, it takes time to set them up.  But it's also "one and done".  And that "really long time", even accounting for some fumbling and false starts - we're talking maybe a half an hour.  Ok let's add in a generous amount of trial and error figuring out how you want your layersets to work - so not just Anno Set setup time, but planning time (which you'd need to do anyway btw, even if Anno Sets were "simpler").  So let's make that setup time a whole day!  Once in your entire Chief career.  And maybe an hour's tweaking per release.  

 

And - having been a tester since version 10, and having had a great many personal discussions with the Chief Chief Dudes since then, I don't see any way they are going to change this now or in the near future.  The Wish List contains an almost limitless supply of things that are a far bigger PITA that they will address first - things that we either can't do at all right  now or things that suck up buckets of time daily, not once per user.

 

I'll never tell anybody to hold back on feedback, delivered however makes sense to you.  Many a good change has happened because of some rabble rousing.  At the same time ask yourself what's really the best use of your time and even of your emotional capital.  Is staying in this particular state of aggravation going to get any positive result for you?  Or just an ulcer?  Does it take time away from other whining with more potential.   Trust me, I got really stuck on some issues are various points in my Chief usage - been there, done that, t-shirt's full of holes.

 

Personally, I can find a whole lot more things in Chief worthy of the Knotting of Knickers!  Hmmm - stair railings comes to my mind!   (oops, my evil motive for this post just surfaced... - I'll start a new thread and not hijack this one!)

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at a minimum, i think Chief should have a 5-10 min Training video on Annote Set alone.

 

to explain the concept and fundamental of it. i'm not sure if they have it in SSA. but defenilyt should be a free training.

 

Wendy;s video on this topic is, again, amazing!! thank you, wendy! 

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I set 10 anno-sets up in 10 minutes, its really a lot of just copying and checking what and how you want something to show.

 

how much preconceived knowledge you already have of tother topics (Layer Set, Text Style, Dimmension Style, etc) 

and your company's standard practice( layering color, layrering names) before you would commit to making a Template.

 

can you just OR would you want to just....jump in and whip up 10 annote set.

if you're novice a user, unsure of a color or linetype or layer name......

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how much preconceived knowledge you already have of tother topics (Layer Set, Text Style, Dimmension Style, etc) 

and your company's standard practice( layering color, layrering names) before you would commit to making a Template.

 

can you just OR would you want to just....jump in and whip up 10 annote set.

if you're novice a user, unsure of a color or linetype or layer name......

I am not sure what the problem is,  CA has already set up anno sets for you.  Use them,  they are for users who do not want to be bothered with customizing their own.

 

Please,  use the anno sets that CA gave you.

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I am not sure what the problem is,  CA has already set up anno sets for you.  Use them,  they are for users who do not want to be bothered with customizing their own.

 

Please,  use the anno sets that CA gave you.

 

Actually - I do know what the problem is.  Chief's oob Anno Sets are confusing.  Very Confusing.  Anno Sets can be used following either of two perfectly valid systems - using Anno Sets to drive Layersets, or not.  They mixed the two.  They have 3 sets that are by scale, and "Use Active Layerset".  Then they have some that are by type.  So you use the Electrical one followed by the 1/4" one, and you're going to seriously be confusticated.

 

And they've only provided some of the needed layersets - it's not so much a truly complete set.  They did separate out Roof from Plan, but not roof framing from floor/ceiling framing.  NKBA is in the group that's by type, but is set to "Use Active Layerset", where the others are not.

 

For oob to be truly useful, and understandable - it should, imnsho, be complete and consistent.  It's not complete.  It's not consistent.  "Other than that, it's fine!"  ;-)

 

I've made some new videos that I hope are less chopped up and will be viewable on Macs (better capture software) and accompanying plan, layout and AnnoSet files for import.  I'm uploading to YouTube.  Let's see if I can figure out how to do a link to my new little Channel!  (Sometimes I'm really thmaht, and sometimes not so much!)    Anyway, when it's done I'll post all back in Tips again.  

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Actually - I do know what the problem is.  Chief's oob Anno Sets are confusing.  Very Confusing.....

 

thank you! wendy.

 

it you're a new user and just starting on CA (like myself).

 

and jump into the preset Annote Set of CA . you would be totally screwed!!!! 

 

the preset is sooooo mesed up the way CA have it.

 

i think this is why we have this thread. people dont have a clue to how and why the way it's set up and can't follow their methodology.

 

and i said....you would have to have a fulll understanding on Layer Sets, Dimension Set, and Text Style Set to fully use Annote Set.

 

to have the CA presets as starting point is horrrrrrible way to start learning about Annote Set, IMO.

 

i have to delete all the CA presets and start fresh with just one Default Set and start learning it from there.

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i have to delete all the CA presets and start fresh with just one Default Set and start learning it from there.

Starting with a single annotation set is a great way to start. Work with it for a while, then when you see a need for a second, add it. Soon you'll have a full set that will get things done quicker.

And I agree that the whole thing is a little complicated and frustrating. My biggest complaint is all the clicking within the dialog box. It would be so much easier if when you called up a set you could see all of the pre-sets without having to open each item. If the interface resembled X7's wall dialog box it would be much easier to see what you have and make changes without getting lost.

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