Foundations for garages and porches on level 2 when the basement is on level 1

[PitMan71]

I have a home with a main level with a basement where the basement is level one and main level is level 2. How do you get Chief to generate the foundation walls for porches and garages at level 2?

 

Thanks in advance.

[PitMan71]

260032-29.zip

[robdyck]

I know that there are various methods and user preferences for constructing walkout foundations, but you've clearly identified one of the drawbacks to the method of using the 'wrong' floors for each level. 

This method is mathematically too 'off' for my mind and I would much rather prefer to use another layer set and saved plan view to manage the display of concrete only foundation elements.

For walkout foundation, everyone has to 'pick their pain' and this method seems a bit more painful to me.

 

One problem is that on Floor 1, the garage foundation room is also below the Pantry. That creates some confusion about the Floor 1 garage foundation room heights. I'll extend the house foundation below the Pantry walls.

 

The Garage Foundation on Floor 1 room will get it's ceiling and floor structure layers zeroed out / removed and a rough ceiling height of 44" (assume 4' foundation).

Garage Foundation walls on Floor 1 can be set to 'hang floor platform... or balloon through...

This combination will allow the floor 1 fdn walls to build to the top of the garage slab, but not higher.

 

The Garage Foundation room on Floor 0 will get it's floor zeroed out / removed and a stem wall height of 0".

 

In summary, this creates redundant foundation plans / walls / rooms for the garage. And it requires manually building a garage foundation on floor 1 in order to auto-build a foundation on floor zero, all while using mental gymnastics about room types and building elevations. 

 

If you're building the garage foundation on floor 1, then you could just uncheck 'Build Foundation Below' and skip the redundant foundation elements on floor 0.

Edited August 20 by robdyck

[tundra_dweller]

3 minutes ago, robdyck said:

This method is mathematically too 'off' for my mind and I would much rather prefer to use another layer set and saved plan view to manage the display of concrete only foundation elements.

 

Agreed 100%. I am working on a project with a walkout basement and I was finally going to try the basement as floor 1 method, but I gave up on that because it has an attached garage with frost footings and I could not figure out a way to make that logically work so that I have all my footings and stemwalls on one foundation plan sheet.

Plus, not having my main level subfloor at zero absolute elevation drives me nuts.

[robdyck]

A simple way to address the brick connections at the corners (make the air gap match the layers from the framed wall above):

AND merge the 2 brick materials!!

Edited August 20 by robdyck

[PitMan71]

2 minutes ago, robdyck said:

A simple way to address the brick connections at the corners (make the air gap match the layers from the framed wall above):

AND merge the 2 brick materials!!

This is some ninja stuff. I have always wondered why i had that problem. Thanks for the tip!

[PitMan71]

This is my first try at basement at level one. Usually i do basement on level 0. I'm with both of you and ready to get back to Egypt. I guess it wouldn't be terribly difficult at this point to do it the other way. I would have to figure out the best way to move things around.

[robdyck]

Just now, PitMan71 said:

I would have to figure out the best way to move things around.

 

This will be painful: If you choose to do this, make a backup copy of the plan first. And, PM me if you run into difficulty or want some help to work through it. It won't be easy...but it won't be too bad either. 10-15 minutes should do the trick.

 

[Chrisb222]

38 minutes ago, robdyck said:

I would much rather prefer to use another layer set and saved plan view to manage the display of concrete only foundation

 

Same. I never saw the advantage to basement on floor 1 unless it's a holdover workaround from before the advances we've had the past several years. I have all dedicated saved plan views, layer sets, dimensions, text, CAD... basically everything for foundation plan, basement plan, and basement plumbing plan. Everything slots in automatically.

[PitMan71]

1 hour ago, robdyck said:

This will be painful: If you choose to do this, make a backup copy of the plan first. And, PM me if you run into difficulty or want some help to work through it. It won't be easy...but it won't be too bad either. 10-15 minutes should do the trick.

I think i got it. Took me a couple times to assess the best approach but I figured it out.

 

Thanks

[PitMan71]

Now i just need to figure out how how to display the walls on the daylight side of the basement on the foundation plan since they are stud walls with brick with windows and doors. I have it as a pony wall with block below FF.

 

thanks

Edited August 20 by PitMan71

[robdyck]

22 minutes ago, PitMan71 said:

display the walls on the daylight side of the basement

For most homes with walkout basements, I show both the upper and the lower walls (Main Layer Only). I also label those wall portions. Regionally, I don't need to show 'concrete only' because the foundation crews are very familiar with walkout basements and can tell which portions are stepped pony walls versus full height foundation walls.

 

The rare times that I do have a need to show 'concrete only' a new SVP with  different pony wall settings and a few polylines to mask the window / door spaces is about all that's needed.

[joey_martin]

Quote

This is my first try at basement at level one.

Probably your last. Basements are on level 0 along with all the foundations. Many have tried over the years to convince me otherwise, but no go for me. 

[Renerabbitt]

just leaving this here,
https://www.rabbittdesign.net/rabbitt-blog/chief-architect-walkout-basement-foundation-floor-0-floor-1

 

[Renerabbitt]

Going to leave this here. ill leave it public for 3 days then it goes back to the membership area. l
I draw a walkout basement on level 1

 

Edited August 21 by Renerabbitt

[Renerabbitt]

8 hours ago, PitMan71 said:

How do you get Chief to generate the foundation walls for porches and garages at level 2?

You would have to manually edit foundation walls in this configurations even if it you srew it on level 0.
Just copy your garage and porch walls, go down a level, paste/hold position, change to foundation walls, and adjust the foundation rooms relative heights. It takes less than a couple of minutes

Edited August 21 by Renerabbitt

[SHCanada2]

2 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

You would have to manually edit foundation walls in this configurations even if it you srew it on level 0.
Just copy your garage and porch walls, go down a level, paste/hold position, change to foundation walls, and adjust the foundation rooms relative heights. It takes less than a couple of minutes

garages here typically have the concrete stem wall above grade. Would you then create a pony wall? Or can you still achieve this with the garage room setup:

 

I read and watched the video(Saw the different floor setups) and the blog post

 

I noticed you had to exclude the room below the garage from the area analysis. Which a person would have to do with the found on floor zero as well (although I exclude it in an OIP so the schedule does not show it, as even a non walkout regular basements have this "room"). I'm not sure the savings there?

 

For western canadaland where 99% of houses have basements with 8" conc walls, the walkout stem wall is still 8 in. The slab is poured independently. There are then furred walls built on the interior of the basement which typically go to the ceiling but not always

 

I already have an SPV for the foundation, and the normal SPV for the floor(which works for basement on floor zero, main on 1, etc)

 

I'm struggling to know what the advantage of the floor 1 foundation is for this western canada scenario?

 

I don't do a lot of these, but I don't remember any issues, maybe the wall intersections had to be adjusted....or maybe i have a bad memory

 

here is how one of the other guy's shows it n plan view, which is typically how i show it (concrete furred walls on side, normal wall on end. Although he also shows it wrapping..to each his own i guess)

 

Edited August 21 by SHCanada2

[Chrisb222]

I've never experienced any restrictions or difficulties keeping the floor levels as intended. Foundation Plan View has its own layer set, dimensions, CAD, text, wall types, etc. Same with Basement Plan View. Once it's set up, it's automatic. Stepped foundations and frost walls are super easy to adjust using wall breaks and dimension moves. Having more than two levels of pony walls would be helpful, but again that's never been a major hurdle.

 

Any gain by putting the basement on Floor 1 would be more than offset from the issues caused by moving Absolute Zero to the basement ... what a nightmare.

 

Hard pass for me. 

[Renerabbitt]

11 hours ago, SHCanada2 said:

I'm struggling to know what the advantage of the floor 1 foundation is for this western canada scenario?

the blog I wrote illustrates a few of the advantages. For instance, I can show a wood framed wall with a furring wall, or I can show the pony wall(stem wall) with a furring wall, independently of showing a stem wall with no furring wall and showing the footing. 
This is all from drawing one wall type and leaving auto foundations on. One saved plan view, one layer set. I drew 4 walls and got this.
Regardless, drawing on level 1 allows for a lot more flexibility. Notice my stem wall doesnt show a buckout like it would if it were drawn on level 0

 

2 hours ago, Chrisb222 said:

issues caused by moving Absolute Zero to the basement

What issues? Genuinely curious

[joey_martin]

20 minutes ago, Renerabbitt said:

What issues? Genuinely curious

I think.....T H I N K...this process is easier now then it used to be by using an elevation offset, but I want my main level sub-floor to be 0'-0" regardless of which "level" it is on in Chief.

 

[Renerabbitt]

32 minutes ago, joey_martin said:

I think.....T H I N K...this process is easier now then it used to be by using an elevation offset, but I want my main level sub-floor to be 0'-0" regardless of which "level" it is on in Chief.

 

Most of my career has been in remodel, I have built a few new homes,but I have never physically built a walkout basement new home. I have remodeled a ton of them(including my own)
Is there a reason for the 0' main level? 

[robdyck]

1 hour ago, Renerabbitt said:

I have never physically built a walkout basement new home.
Is there a reason for the 0' main level? 

I have physically built and drawn hundreds and hundreds of walkout basement homes over the last 30 years. Like many things in Chief, there is often more than one way to achieve the desired outcome so I wouldn't attempt to persuade anyone that one method is better than an other. Rather, we should choose a method that is logical for us to understand and implement with regularity. And we should endeavor to explore and evaluate other methods to see if we will benefit from adapting our usual strategies.

 

The main reason to keep the foundation on Level 0 and the main floor at elevation 0'-0" is the simple logical understanding of the building. No mental gymnastics are required to understand the information from a room or floor dialog when the elevations being used in the model are obvious and intuitive. Elevations, whether relative from a floor or absolute apply to many elements within the building so maintaining that logical understand can be helpful and offsetting by the floor structure and floor height dimensions combined can be enough to 'break' the mental link for many people. 

 

Assuming a walkout bungalow for this topic, I inherently 'know' all the structural elevations I will be using, whether it's the ceiling height, top of windows and headers, dropped elevations of porches and decks, top or bottom height of posts and beams, stairs and landings or the absolute elevation of various trim and decorative components. BUT, if I were to force the addition of 16.75" and 109.125" (for example) to those known elevations, they now all become unknown. This can become even more cumbersome if I'm including schedules that reference elevations, like a beam schedule for instance. It's also going to be more difficult for me to verbally communicate with a foundation crew or framer or truss supplier, if a question by phone comes into the office.

 

I'm sure many other people have CAD reference guides already existing in their saved Elevation and Section views because regionally, the foundation step heights will be similar if not the same, generally speaking of course. In Canada, the code generally calls for a minimum 4'-0" foundation depth for heated structures, so that's what I'll reference here.  This makes the setup for walkout foundation walls quite simple. All foundation walls along the back can be set as pony walls with the 'Height Off Floor' elevation set to 0". This results in a concrete wall portion equal to the slab thickness...for me, that's generally 4". So the simple process of manually editing the bottom of the back foundation walls can be done in any camera view by dragging the bottom of the wall down 44". Once one wall is pulled down, you can usually just drag the vertical portion of an adjacent wall to continue that lowered elevation.

 

The side walls are a bit more time consuming, especially if you're factoring in a site specific grading plan or architectural controls with exposed foundation limitations. But the process is still simple. Generally, I'd use a Full Height foundation wall from the front to account for backfill heights over 4'-0", and then stepped pony walls from that point towards the back for the remainder. CAD Lines or Terrain Features on a reference layer can be used as a visual guide to ensure the correct foundation depth below grade, and the correct foundation extension above grade. On my Right and Left Elevation cameras, I also keep a reference polyline to represent the concrete wall portion with Line Lengths displayed and I'll often position and size this using even foot increments (where possible) before adjusting all the foundation wall steps.

 

Are there some limitations? Yes. But are there rooms under the basement floor? No. And when factoring in the approved and proposed grades along a building, it's probably easier to adjust your wall steps in elevation view than attempting to adjust invisible walls and sub-basement rooms in plan view.

 

In my own practice, I've had some more complicated projects with multiple foundation wall types or multiple foundation floor elevations where moving everything up a floor was practical and helpful, but those projects are not the norm. In summary, I prefer that the model in Chief logically matches the reality of the building. It just makes more sense to me than utilizing an outside-of-the box approach. I really appreciate seeing and talking about other methods and approaches with everyone on this forum because I, for one, can be guilty of getting stuck in my routines!

[SHCanada2]

4 hours ago, Renerabbitt said:

Regardless, drawing on level 1 allows for a lot more flexibility. Notice my stem wall doesnt show a buckout like it would if it were drawn on level 0

but that is not how it is commonly shown here. It is commonly shown as a furred concrete wall on the sides and a regular wall on the end.

 

You would have to draw these different walls on your floor 1 (or show it differently), and sure the auto build foundation then builds on floor 0. But you still have to draw it on floor 1(or do something to show it differently). If I leave auto build foundations on and then change the end wall to a regular wall on floor 0, I'm having to draw or change the different wall. sounds to me like the same amount of steps.

 

And there is not the copy and paste garage foundation walls issue if one draws on floor 0

 

I don't know I think we should have a bake-off, and count the steps.

 

 

 

Edited August 21 by SHCanada2

[Renerabbitt]

On 8/21/2026 at 1:47 PM, robdyck said:

they now all become unknown.

I haven't been able to wrap my head around this logic, Chief is fully capable of dimensioning on a per-floor basis...0 is a fictitious number, 109.125 is no more true than 0..there is nothing keeping someone from throwing a rock on the ground on site and saying thats 0 , same goes for chief...objects can reference a finished floor, including windows and doors and framing members. I don't think you currently tell a framer the head height for the basement level is -29.125, haha.
But also...there is nothing stopping you from setting whatever floor you want to 0"

Also not a combative tone...im not autistic..but im some thing...some kind of dummy more likely..which is to say that some things confuse me, and i get frustrated when I am confused..this is not subjective..I am confused and frustrated with myself

I wasn't going to come back to this thread until I just got commissioned to bring forward a plan into my templates that had a walkout on level 0. 
The amount of work it took this person to "make it work" trying to depict foundation walls crawlspaces and footing alongside living space was nuts to me....and it still looked very sub-par.
I would be curious to see anyone's plan printout of their foundation plan and their walkout plan.
Not directed at you rob, but I think maybe I have a hardheaded expectation about what I want my plan to look like, and it just wouldn't be up to my standard trying to get it all on one level. The image Jason posted earlier in this thread..that is not a foundation plan to me, nowhere near one.
I'm really curious why this has been such a point of contention in my work as a trainer in this software. It makes so much sense on paper to me. Why wouldn't someone want this simplest approach? Isolating by level, isolating two systems that should be isolated from one another, not requiring any new defaults or layer sets or workarounds. Just the fact that you have fenestration interrupting a stem wall that for all intents and purposes does NOT belong on a foundation plan is not to my level of acceptable plan documentation. I don't think there is another program out there that would allow you to show a door opening in your stem walls where there is not a door opening. 
What about foundation vents? Couldnt be simpler, place them on level 0 using louvered windows.
Isolated area analysis, no problem..I could keep piling on the reasons if I thought about it more. Stepped foundations, mixed floor structures, keyed stem walls, sunken floors, auto rebuild foundations throughout the design process, showing a brick or stone stepped pony wall.
 

 

On 8/21/2026 at 2:02 PM, SHCanada2 said:

I don't know I think we should have a bake-off, and count the steps.

I'd bet my years salary I it's less steps in almost every scenario...starting from chiefs OOTB template
I would also bet its less steps starting from my template vs anyone else's. Fairly certain we are arguing over long standing preference, not fundamentals. One method simply has more capabilities, and that's in inarguable fact. It has its draw backs, which would largely all go away if we had a dedicated foundation "floor"
Also my note to Rob is meant for you as well.. I'm just being passionate, and using a competitive tone..mixed with this inexplicably weird discomfort with this convo, haha. I'm not trying to be in a pissing match though my language might say otherwise

 

 

 

On 8/21/2026 at 2:02 PM, SHCanada2 said:

but that is not how it is commonly shown here. It is commonly shown as a furred concrete wall on the sides and a regular wall on the end.

You quoted me mentioning a buckout so I'm not sure if you meant to quote a different part? this is a buckout or blockout

This is caused from drawing a door on level 0. this is a common condition where the plan-north facing wall is daylight, meaning there is no pony wall assembly. This buckout will be in your foundation plan. This would confuse the uninitiated framer and form workers. The only way to avoid that is lift the door above the height of the ponywall, or the ponywall below the height of the door..my forms crew would call me up and ask me if thats supposed to be a crawl access or something. my plan checker would kick that back
 

 

On 8/21/2026 at 2:02 PM, SHCanada2 said:

You would have to draw these different walls on your floor 1 (or show it differently),

We have to draw the same walls in both approaches...level 0 requires an extra step of designating a wall as a foundation wall, thus turning off auto build foundations. 
It also requires that you make a new layer set to isolate your footings as well as your pony wall. In some cases it requires you draw a pony wall whereas I would not need to draw that pony wall. This would be in the case that you need to represent the stem wall construction separate from the upper wall assembly. 

Another major draw back on daylight basement sections above grade...don't you have to manually draw in floor joists?
Floor joists on level 0 would only show if you have it set to have a floor but even still, chief always shows floor joists for the current floor on the floor below. I dont think it will even generate floor joists, am I mistaken? Setting a room in the OOTB template to Has Floor with a wood frame I-joist and auto framing produces no perceivable floor joists on level 0

 

On 8/21/2026 at 2:02 PM, SHCanada2 said:

But you still have to draw it on floor 1(or do something to show it differently)

Yes, for drawing a walkout on level 0 you would have to adjust the floor heights of the room that supplies the garage footings/stepping, keep in mind that there is a lot less liability keeping auto foundations on and working for you as opposed to manual foundations. 
You would also need to copy the walls, if you had turned off auto build foundation before drawing your top level.
 

 

On 8/21/2026 at 2:02 PM, SHCanada2 said:

And there is not the copy and paste garage foundation walls issue if one draws on floor 0

Correct, but you are still having to manage the room height since you dont want your stem walls 8' under ground

We are arguing steps for a single use case but fundamentally one approach has more options. How does one handle using the post footing tool if I do not want a room divider in my walkout level? Especially if its within allowed deflection and offset
Two levels of pony walls, isolated floors means you can use one set of defaults across the board, text/callouts/notes/dimensions/layer set etc. 
How are people showing crawlspace vents? Crawlspace access?
This is automatic foundations, automatic dimensions, same layer set/text defaults as the walkout. I got to use a hotkey to change floors, didnt need to change the plan view, windows dont kill auto foundations. 

This is the floor above, same auto everything

Even the depiction of a raised slab butted to a mono slab is difficult. 

and then again there are just some things you simply couldnt get chief to do without splitting the level

CMU wall U block ledger? etc. etc.  

Edited August 25 by Renerabbitt

[joshuanyambisa]

I’d recommend setting the foundation level to match the Level 2 structure and using a separate foundation plan for the garage/porches. This should allow Chief to generate the required foundation walls correctly.