blizzard Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes a newbie, I have searched and watched tutorials. I can't get two roof pitches if they are in line. A simple example. Draw a basic ranch, let's say 24x48 with a 10/12 roof pitch. Add a garage, same width with a 4/12 pitch (changed from default). I cannot get the roof to show both pitches, only one. If I build in a L shape, no problem, but if they are in line - no go. I have played with the walls, added breaks in the walls, switched to manual, and nothing seems to work. What am I blind too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 ...... What am I blind too? Posting the plan along with the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 You need to create 4 roof planes for your 2 roofs. I would do it manually. Edit the pitch in the dialog box for the roof over the garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Chief is a little "too bright" at times, it is assuming it is really the same building and you really want the same roof , try making the garage narrower ie setback 1-2' front and back or lower the garage 12" and see if that helps..... or just do it manually perhaps M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 2:30 including typing this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Blizzard, don't be "Afraid to Ask", just ask away...there is no shortage of information/knowledge on this forum. And yes, better to post your plan for a quicker response that's hopefully the one you need. Bill Lynch, good question, will have to mess around with that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Chief is a little "too bright" at times, it is assuming it is really the same building and you really want the same roof , try making the garage narrower ie setback 1-2' front and back or lower the garage 12" and see if that helps..... or just do it manually perhaps M. I have been able to do what you suggest, but the addition I have been attempting to draw requires the wall to be inline. Each time I move it back there goes the roof. I couldn't get it to work manually but I am not sure I was doing that right. I have been attempting to play with roof lines to see what looks best for an addition. The only way I have been able to have two different pitches is to draw two separate buildings tight together. That still doesn't work well as the overhangs interfere with each other. I keep wondering, I spent money for this? I could do as much with free software online. If I would have dug out my three sided ruler I would have been done. Not really, but it seems that way. 2:30 including typing this post. I have tried that simple example I mentioned for hours and cannot do what you did in minutes. While the plan I want to do is a bit more complicated it is still very simple. Blizzard, don't be "Afraid to Ask", just ask away...there is no shortage of information/knowledge on this forum. And yes, better to post your plan for a quicker response that's hopefully the one you need. Bill Lynch, good question, will have to mess around with that one. You are correct, One just needs to find the helpful members. I spend a lot of time (coming up on 10 years) on a specific car forum and I can understand it gets annoying when the same old questions turn up. On that site often "read the owners manual" or "search is your friend" are always thrown out at new members. I always wonder why waste the effort to sling that crap, if you don't want to help just pass on by. I spent most of the afternoon reading old posts and trying different things but the roof keeps joining together with one pitch. Thanks to all who replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 no it doesn't work auto, and is part of what I call the " 12" Bug " , it has been present for years , set the Room heights to 12" different and it will do it , 11 7/8" not. I seem to run into doing additions etc , and get the same when say trying a shed roof on a gable end , but perhaps I am doing it in the wrong order or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 no it doesn't work auto, and is part of what I call the " 12" Bug " , it has been present for years , set the Room heights to 12" different and it will do it , 11 7/8" not. I seem to run into doing additions etc , and get the same when say trying a shed roof on a gable end , but perhaps I am doing it in the wrong order or something? When you say set the room height, do you mean wall height, ceiling, or? I tried changing the ceiling as one part would be cathedral but it didn't help. I am trying to figure out how to upload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kMoquin Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Blizzard, Here's a quick video of how I'd go about creating those two roofs: http://youtu.be/l4GDczBbbrQ (sorry no sound) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thank you for the video. I guess the limiting factor is I purchased Suite and it does not seem to have the capabilities of the more advanced editions. Even if I manually build the roof (which is really no different than auto in Suite) the roofs morph into one. I will try to attach my most successful attempt that used two exterior walls side by side (invisible) to build the roof I wanted. I am tossing around ideas for an addition and want to see what might look good. Pay no attention to windows or doors, at this point I am just trying to see walls and a roof and what conflicts there will be with overhangs. Even the overall dimensions are not final at this point, I am just looking for a general concept. Maybe it would be better to offset the garage with the lower roof. IDK While I would love to create an architectural plan I realize my limits. I bought this program so that I could present an architect a visual idea so he/she could hit the ground running. I guess I will be able to accomplish that goal but not without disappointment in the program. Perhaps a napkin and pencil would have been enough. Let's see if the attachment works. correct roof 2.plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evergreen Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Blizzard, I added an attic wall to close up the gable end as shown...take a look at second image, I think you need to rework how these roofs come together over the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dshall Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Blizzard, Here's a quick video of how I'd go about creating those two roofs: http://youtu.be/l4GDczBbbrQ (sorry no sound) A comment in regards to The Moakster's video....... not sure if I am totally on board with his method...... or I should say you must be careful and know what you are doing....... The Moakster adjusted roof planes by matching fascia heights, this led to what I would perceive as different plate heights of the ROOF BASE LINE..... what he did could most definitely work, but you really must understand what happened when he did this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 Blizzard, I added an attic wall to close up the gable end as shown...take a look at second image, I think you need to rework how these roofs come together over the door. Thank you. Yes, the roof over the door needs attention. For some reason the roof doesn't seem to be centered over the garage as the roofs line up on the backside. I did so much hacking to get the roof to form that there are a lot of no-no's within. The first goal was to see what pitch would look good for the higher roof of the addition. 10/12 seems to work well. I dropped to 4/12 for the garage to tie in with the original structure. I tried the high roof over the whole thing but it started looking like a shed, to massive for the original ranch. Adding the extended gable seems to work well on the front of the garage. The end wall of the 10/12 faces southwest so it will have glass all the way up as much of that section will not have a ceiling. Ideas are welcomed. Back to the original issue... I still don't understand why the program will not build two pitches inline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kbird1 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 hi Blizzard , I see you have Suite , so HomeTalk rather than Chieftalk maybe a better place to post your questions since they will know the Tools you have to use. A workaround for this is actually a trick Scott uses of a 0" height 2nd floor , you can read about it here on Hometalk. https://hometalk.chiefarchitect.com/index.php?/topic/124-different-pitch-on-two-areas-of-same-rectangular-building/?hl=roof#entry628 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 24, 2015 Author Share Posted February 24, 2015 hi Blizzard , I see you have Suite , so HomeTalk rather than Chieftalk maybe a better place to post your questions since they will know the Tools you have to use. I don't think it is worth the effort. Just not enough tools in the tool box. I could have built half the addition in the time wasted with this software. If it wasn't the dead of winter that is. Thanks to everyone who tried to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 blizzard: If you wouldn't mind, can you post an image of the Roof Plane Specification dialog box > General Tab after clicking on one of your roof planes and opening the dbx? I am curious as to what difference there is between what you might have in roof tools and settings vs CA's premier software. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 blizzard: Assuming your roof tools are similar to what we have with premier editions of CA, you need to do as Kevin did IMO. I probably would have done one thing differently than Kevin did in his video .... I would have matched the 10:12 pitch roof planes' fascia height to that of the 4:12 roof planes' fascia height which would have raised the 10:12 roof planes up. It really depends on how the roof structures will be built that will determine where the roof planes should sit ... if the ceiling heights in your example are the same. Framed roof planes' locations are dependent on their vertical rafter depth which is a function of the size of the member, roof pitch, etc. Roofs built with trusses have their own set of rules which affect the roof planes' locations. What you can get away with is all dependent on the design. In your model, you are incorrectly butting your 4:12 roof planes to the edge of the 10:12 roof planes. Your 4:12 roof planes should tuck under the 10:12 roof planes to the outside edge of the exterior finish of an exposed attic gable wall that lies directly over the divider wall(s) below. Your roof gables can have the same overhang as the eaves or you can set them to a different value. A 3D camera full overview shows that you are missing this attic gable wall. You can go up to the attic level and, with the reference display toggled on, you can draw and attic wall over the divider wall on the main level. You might have to hit F12 to rebuild walls, floors and ceilings if the new attic wall projects above the roof planes. I discovered, as Bill and perhaps others did, that Chief doesn't allow us to break a wall and then, after assigning different roof pitches to the walls on both sides of the wall breaks, properly build the roof planes with the two different roof pitches ... with the ceiling heights of the rooms the same on either side of the wall breaks. I didn't try the 12" test that Mick did although I did get some strange results for a couple of lesser room/ceiling height adjustments I tried. Until Chief gives us the ability to fully use the wall roof pitch assignment tools, you will have to do this type of roof manually (or at least 1/2 manually) and you will have to adjust one or the other set of roof planes up or down to get the fascia tops to match up. As noted on Kevin's video, it only takes a couple of minutes to do this if you know what you are doing. After doing this, there's a slight flaw noticeable in 3D camera full overviews in that you can see two different gutter ends (if you have gutters) ... it doesn't make both gutters into one when you match the fascia heights [although technically it would be nice if it did]. I can live with that for now but it would be nice if Chief would improve the wall/roof pitch assignment functionality so that it works as discussed. You posed a good question ... and it showed me a "slight" weakness in the program ... which is easily overcome with the use of other tools and techniques, which is one of Chief's strengths which many of us have come to appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blizzard Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 blizzard: If you wouldn't mind, can you post an image of the Roof Plane Specification dialog box > General Tab after clicking on one of your roof planes and opening the dbx? I am curious as to what difference there is between what you might have in roof tools and settings vs CA's premier software. Thanks. I would if I could and if it was possible. Unfortunately, there is not a way to manually build a roof on home designer suite. One can stop the auto rebuilding of a roof but that is it. The only way to manipulate the program is to build two separate buildings with the proper roofs, stop auto rebuild, then merge the buildings. I managed to do that with good enough results to view the general looks of the building. There was still a problem on one side with the eves, there too, one cannot alter the overhang on the gable wall only. It is the whole house or nothing. I guess you can alter ceiling heights to help but what's the point, it helps on one side and causes the opposite problem on the other. In my opinion it was a wasted $100 bill on Home Designer Suite 2014. There are free programs that can do as much if not more. It's fine to do a simple building and to get an idea of room layout and window sizes, etc. According to the web site one has to go all the way up to pro to get the proper tools. Thank you to all that joined in to help, sorry I posted in the wrong forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJSpud Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Download the free demo version. You'll have about 4 hours (I think) to build your model ... you should have enough time to build a shell with doors, windows, walls and roof ... then take screen shots and use Snipit to capture any views you'll need. That should be an alternative solution that will be better than what you have done. You are the one who's in the driver seat when it comes to purchasing software. It is on your shoulders to know what you are getting and whether or not it will do what you want or expect it to do. There are things that even CA premier versions don't/can't do but those of us using it get enough functionality out of it to do the jobs we need done. If there are free programs that "can do more", by all means use them ... but I think you'll find that even those will have short comings that you may not find acceptable. An alternative would be to hire a CA user to do the modeling for you. It probably would have taken less time, less grief, maybe even less money if your time is worth anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2wheeltodd Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 A comment in regards to The Moakster's video....... not sure if I am totally on board with his method...... or I should say you must be careful and know what you are doing....... The Moakster adjusted roof planes by matching fascia heights, this led to what I would perceive as different plate heights of the ROOF BASE LINE..... what he did could most definitely work, but you really must understand what happened when he did this. With multiple pitches in the same plane I set the minimum heel height to the lowest pitch. You need to do some math to calculate the heel height for a different pitch but by doing so you can maintain a consistent plate height. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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